the Milton Cobo CBL360

T

tresto

Changui
Hi!

I'm sure many of you have noticed how Milton Cobo did a different CBL360.
He does regular 360s but also some 'special' ones with some extra turning between 6 and 2.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=311McqUBWI8
at 0.24 and 0.46 he does some regular 360s.
at 1.57 and 2.09 he does some 'super' 360s

Has anyone learned how to do them? What makes such a move work?
I tried and experimented with it but nothing came out of it except some not very comfortable stuff...

It kind of looks like he starts the 360 on 5 and not the usual collect on 6 / go around on 7 but I'm not sure. Any ideas or experience on the matter ?
 
I can't watch the video now but are you talking about full 360 maybe?

Since the regular one you do a half turn and then cross body it's actually a half 360 which looks like 360. (you start and end facing the same direction at the end of 8 bars)

In full 360, you do a complete turn and then cross body. In that case you end up facing opposite direction.

If what you meant with "super" is full 360, I started to work on it after getting critism on my lack of 360s :) it takes a bit time to lead it properly.
So far here are my findings:
1- timing seems to be the same. I mean you start and end at the same beats but your turn is faster.
2- you need better connection with your partner. turning together but like a single body.
3- lady has more responsibilities in this one. she shouldnt anticipate (as always) and do a big back step as if it's gonna be a half 360. Then it slows you down.

any other ideas?
 
Easiest way to get used to it is to start the move from your CBL. Whether on 3 or 7, it makes it very easy to do a 540, 720, or 900.
 
What Milton does is "ordinary" 360, but with 1/2 more turn on the right foot, so I call it CBL 540. If you want to do it using the same timing as usual CBL360, it's very hard for the lady to get around you using only 3 steps, so most of them will have to do some additional syncopated steps (like 12&3& or so), like the lady on that video. In my area, girls are not familiar with that move, because 3/4 of guys can't do even proper CBL 360 because most instructors are not teaching it well, and are also not familiar with doing more steps on some moves. However recently I can do this CBL 540 with some of them. It is important to be able to do this with a good balance without partner first, then you have to hold her quite close during the turn so she has less to travel, and you have to be able to use her momentum for this turn without forcing/pushing/pulling her. Make sure to perfect CBL 360 first. Before trying 1/2 turn more, maybe you can try turning only 1/4 more

Of course, it's possible to turn 720, 900, 1800, 3600 deegrees, using some extra bars, but I never saw a guy doing more than 540 in the same timing as CBL 360 (and I actually know only one guy who can do this as good as Milton). Also, while Milton did this turn at 1.57 entirely on right foot, on 2:09 he used slight push with left foot to do the turn, because the girl had almost zero speed at beginning of the turn
 
I think there are a couple of secrets to doing as many turns (and as smoothly) as Milton does.

1. Lock the follow in place with your frame. This means you need to be standing straight and tall, and you basically scoop her into the move.

2. As you are turning, both of you need to lean backward slightly. Think back to being a kid. Did you ever do that game where you and another person grab hands and spin around as many times as you could? If you did, then as you did it, you both leaned toward the outside of the circle. It's the same concept.

3. Both you and the follow turn around a central axis. You don't turn around her, nor does she turn around you.

Hope this helps!
 
fyi...there is a ton of misinformation in this thread - be aware. There are threads on this exact topic and discussed at length. Please use the search function.
 
petteri said:
Milton starts turning heavily on beat 1 (or 5). He is still dances On2.
"Standard" on2 360 starts turning on beat 2.
Click to expand...

I'm dancing it on1 and there is also a need (for me at least) to slightly adjust timing, so I'm using about one extra beat to do the turn (depending also on the lady and speed of the music), speeding up at exit (so it is something like 12--4 6&7)

opm1s6 said:
fyi...there is a ton of misinformation in this thread - be aware. There are threads on this exact topic and discussed at length. Please use the search function.
Click to expand...

Possible. I just explained how I do this. Maybe it's totaly wrong :) However, except some Milton's videos and some recording from the classes with mentioned guy (he didn't teach it, just demonstrated it at the end of the combination), didn't find any other 'reference videos'
 
opm1s6 said:
fyi...there is a ton of misinformation in this thread - be aware. There are threads on this exact topic and discussed at length. Please use the search function.
Click to expand...

i dont remember how many times i wrote this but i dont mind writing again.
this is not a salsapedia but a salsa forum.
if you disagree on a point, you can always contribute with you extensive knowledge instead of suggesting search functionality.

this is why i asked "any other ideas?"
 
tresto said:
Hi!

I'm sure many of you have noticed how Milton Cobo did a different CBL360.
He does regular 360s but also some 'special' ones with some extra turning between 6 and 2.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=311McqUBWI8
at 0.24 and 0.46 he does some regular 360s.
at 1.57 and 2.09 he does some 'super' 360s

Has anyone learned how to do them? What makes such a move work?
I tried and experimented with it but nothing came out of it except some not very comfortable stuff...

It kind of looks like he starts the 360 on 5 and not the usual collect on 6 / go around on 7 but I'm not sure. Any ideas or experience on the matter ?
Click to expand...

I've tried to dissect this move but I really don't know the mechanics of what's going on. I have a theory that it's actually more of a "450" than a "540" with the guy accomodating the lady somewhat by moving around her more but it's probably rubbish since every time I try to execute this move the floor gets covered in blood.

I wish that I had asked him about this when I had the chance because if there's one move that makes me think "Milton" - this is it.

By the way, I love your terminology. I used to call this a 540 but from now on it's it's a 'super' 360.
 
Luke said:
I've tried to dissect this move but I really don't know the mechanics of what's going on. I have a theory that it's actually more of a "450" than a "540" with the guy accomodating the lady somewhat by moving around her more but it's probably rubbish since every time I try to execute this move the floor gets covered in blood.
Click to expand...

Well, it is exactly half turn more than usual CBL360, if you want to stay in the slot. If you turn less, you are in the way of the lady on the exit from this CBL, so you have to force her around you to the other side (Milton also isn't perfect in some cases on this video). However, on entry I try to get slightly more around the lady before starting turning on the right foot than when doing usual CBL360 (while she is doing inside pivot(s)

It is very important to catch the lady at the right moment and to lead her to step almost forward with right foot (instead side or back) at exit of her pivot(s), otherwise you have no chance to make it. Usage of your and her momentum on the entry is essential here
 
olamalam said:
i dont remember how many times i wrote this but i dont mind writing again.
this is not a salsapedia but a salsa forum.
if you disagree on a point, you can always contribute with you extensive knowledge instead of suggesting search functionality.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but while we like to encourage you and all other members to talk about all salsa related subjects (in the matching section, of course), we also like to see our members take advantage of the search function that this site provides. Sometimes you or any other member might find some good old threads around providing exactly the information that you've been searching for or providing you a good start to ask about a certain aspect of something.

Anyway as for the 360 CBL, I think you and anybody else in this thread might be interested to read the tol thread named The 360 Move, which contains a reference to the even older thread titled How to do a 360 CBL.
 
Hm ... link to video on older thread isn't working anymore. On the newer thread, there are some links to CBL 360 clips at pages 2 and 5 (didn't check all pages yet), but it's only "ordinary" CBL 360
We are talking about turning 1/2 turn more using the same timing

Edit: found only one link to mentioned move at the last (11th) page of the thread, at position 0:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2U1yTnzrAc&feature=related
 
chrisk said:
Sorry, but while we like to encourage you and all other members to talk about all salsa related subjects (in the matching section, of course), we also like to see our members take advantage of the search function that this site provides. Sometimes you or any other member might find some good old threads around providing exactly the information that you've been searching for or providing you a good start to ask about a certain aspect of something.
Click to expand...

I'm not against search functionalty at all. what i dislike is "this is not correct, use search button to get correct information" attitude.
what if we end up with another wrong info as a search result? I think moderators should mark threads as "correct" or "contains incorrect info" :tongue:
 
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