Is Kizomba just dry humping?

Offbeat said:
I don't think women of any ethnicity can claim to get more dances or not get enough dances in the USA.

I have verbalized like it several times and also mentioned a few times how I hardly encountered followers with African roots in EU.
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So if blacks in europe prefer asking white women while in the US this is not the case, then maybe the cause might lie in them feeling different. Blacks in the US are there since centuries so they feel rooted in the US, while in europe they came only the last decades so they may feel still unwanted by many and seek more alignment / more self-affirmation? But this is really speculation.

At least in France there are equally black females as black males, so you can't explain it with ratio being different in the country.
 
Winston said:
One point I like to make is that racism isn't the only reason and even not the main reason of all reasons that some ladies are not getting enough dances.
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Good point. Racism is a strong word to use in this context. I tend to instead think in terms of preferences. We each have our own innate preferences which are of varying degrees.
 
MamboJazz said:
But this would also mean that black women dance worse than average and therefore are not asked.
So black guys dance better than average but black women dance worse than average?
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No, I suppose they dance as good as average or as white women.

See it like this: If there is a scene with just one race and more women are leaving than men in a year, assuming an equal amount of male and female starters each month during the year. Then at the end of the year there will be more men in that scene.
So if the average dancers male white, female white and female black are leaving sooner than the average black guy, you get an over representation of black guys.

And something different: are there more black men starting with kizomba than white men? Maybe less white men love kizomba music?
 
I've already given the answer, black men who like women dance Urbankiz whereas black men who like black women would dance traditional kizomba (same pattern that we witnessed in France 30 years ago with French Zouk)

MamboJazz said:
At least in France there are equally black females as black males, so you can't explain it with ratio being different in the country.
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In France black men outnumbered black women
 
Winston said:
One point I like to make is that racism isn't the only reason and even not the main reason of all reasons that some ladies are not getting enough dances.
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We aren’t discussing “some” followers not getting dances. We are pointing out lack of followers of a specific demographic in the salsa festival scene across Europe. We do not know the reason for underrepresentation.

Frankly among the trained salsa dancers in the international scene, I haven’t witnessed racism in asking or accepting. While I have no way to prove it the studio trained scenes don’t seem to exhibit entrenched racism seen in their wider society.

Also as an example I know well several African-American followers who visit Europe for festivals and dancing. They are dancing a lot and have never hinted lack of getting dances while there.

That then probably means something about the respective local scenes that one gender is over represented and the opposite gender is underrepresented.
 
MamboJazz said:
But this would also mean that black women dance worse than average and therefore are not asked.
black women dance worse than average?
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How can you draw that conclusion? You are working backwards from outcome to speculate a reason.

In my experience you are flat wrong. Very broadly speaking the followers from following demographics are better than average - black, Korean, Eastern European. 15 years back I would have added Japanese in that category. I don’t know if the salsa has shrunk in Japan. I hardly encounter Japanese salsa dancers (of both genders) unlike before.
 
Offbeat said:
How can you draw that conclusion?
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I don't. I responded to the hypothesis that black leads are overrepresented because they are better and therefore stay while others leave - then one should also assume that black ladies leave because they don't get asked because they are not good. So I doubt this hypothesis.
 
MamboJazz said:
Ouch, so is there indeed truth in it?

I had never heard about this until recently when I took a look at dance-forums and randomly choose one of the oldest threads: a supposedly black woman wrote the same, that many black guys prefer white women because they are like the trophy to win. :( Even without visa hunting, when they are already living in the western world.
But probably it's hard to get much voices about it, because it's hard to get data about elephants in the room.
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It’s absolutely true. Even in America. I have many black followers told me that they very much appreciate I ask them for dances. Their black leads don’t ask them to dance. It’s like those black leads don’t like their own race, they are chasing white b****. Those black ladies are good dancers btw. It’s not someone’s bitter comments, it’s something you can observe if you pay attention. In America, sometimes you have all black Kiz communities, everything is normal there. But if in an event with all races, suddenly, the black leads don’t see their black sisters on the floor anymore.

do you think kiz scene promotes interracial? I got that impression just by looking at the flyers of those congresses.
 
Bostontraitor said:
do you think kiz scene promotes interracial? I got that impression just by looking at the flyers of those congresses.
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Our resident creep kiz instructor was advertising something along the lines of

"♠ NO PARTNER OR EXPERIENCE NEEDED ♠ "

I asked one of the other instructors if the owner even knew what the ♠ means and that the studio was basically advertising BBC. He laughed shook his head and said 'no no she doesn't.' I guess she got the point eventually because the ♠ has been dropped from the advertisements.
 
Bostontraitor said:
It’s absolutely true. Even in America. I have many black followers told me that they very much appreciate I ask them for dances.
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I some know which dance to are referring to but in the USA, when it comes to dancing I haven’t heard complaints from black women of not getting dances or being invisible to their male counterparts.
 
Offbeat said:
I some know which dance to are referring to but in the USA, when it comes to dancing I haven’t heard complaints from black women of not getting dances or being invisible to their male counterparts.
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It's definitely a thing in the US, but I would say it's more along the lines of black women are going to be Plan B, whereas young, hot, white/latina women are Plan A.

Typical scenes tend to be lead heavy, so they will get their fair share. And casino scenes tend to attract more black people these days so it tends to work itself out.

You're in San Fran, right? That's not really America LOL
 
Wow, this is quite a long thread. I can only imagine what people might have talked about across 41 pages haha

I still have never tried to dance Kizumba but I have a friend that goes around coaching in different countries. He is kind of a like a digital nomad, but instead of digital it is dancing.
 
Just back from Hawaii congress. Last year there was a separate Kiz room but this year was nothing. Not a separate room, not even a workshop. Only thing I saw was a few pathetic Kizzombie leads in the bachata room dry humping follows and trying to call it dancing.

We are winning the war friends. We will push this abomination back into Europe then straight into Parris. Onto victory!
 
AKon1 said:
Just back from Hawaii congress. Last year there was a separate Kiz room but this year was nothing. Not a separate room, not even a workshop. Only thing I saw was a few pathetic Kizzombie leads in the bachata room dry humping follows and trying to call it dancing.

We are winning the war friends. We will push this abomination back into Europe then straight into Parris. Onto victory!
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Beware of the wrath of @Sabrosura :D
 
I don't know if this is good or bad, but there are definitely certain categories or kinds of women who might share a lot of the same experiences and perspectives in life who I have been meeting in kizomba. It can seem strange to see a room filled with 95% white ladies, but there is a certain type of personality or unquestionably a common life pattern or set of similar life preferences with a good amount of followers one would meet in kizomba. Definitely you wouldn't meet a ultra traditionalist mormon woman kizomba follow or something of the sort but you know what I mean. Even then, we all love them! I'd also add that they're atleast more open minded or even progressive compared to alot of bachata moderna follows, I'd say alot of bachateras are just typical, average types who transplanted into the dance scene.
 
Back from Vegas. The war moves forward. No Kiz room. No kiz workshops. Not a single Kiz played all weekend. On the downside you could tell the pathetic homeless Kiz leads in the bachata room, usually over 50 trying to look in their 30s. They were poorly attempting to dance Kiz to bachata and really really creeping the follows out trying to dry hump them every dance regardless of what the music is saying. They think tempo is a model of Ford. Kind of makes me wish their was a kiz room if just to get those damn talentless perverts out of the bachata room.
 
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