I'm flipped

[DJ Yuca]

Ok. Got it. In summary: you are really into the music and understanding it fully. Dance: not so much. Thats fair.

Well prior to trying to become a musician I was a dancer, so over my years in salsa I've probably done both equally. I used to dance every Friday and Saturday night at one point. I was also, and remain, very interested by the history of dance. So to say 'dance: not so much' is incorrect.

I really only enjoy dancing on 2, with a woman who can follow basic mambo/salsa moves, to music that's not mostly fast.

But why make all those comments on the dance and yet without ever having attempted to practice what you are writing about? The OP of this thread @songname was commenting about exactly that. The practice of dance is not at all what it looks like. The feel one gets when dancing to the music is very different than what others can see.

Why make all those comments? I can't even recall what 'all those comments' were but I imagine I read something that inspired me to respond. That's how forums work. If you feel a particular post is inappropriate or flawed you need to be specific because making negative comments about my posts in general, or all my posts in this thread, is pointless.

As for not having practiced what I write about? As I said, I have danced a lot of salsa in my life. And when it comes to the history I've literally tried to find and study every potentially credible resource out there.

So I rest my case, you are not so much into dancing - you are rather more into just talking about it and conveying "expertise" solely from visual input.

Expertise my arse. However there is nothing wrong with writing about something I have seen. And for the record, I love to dance.

 

[DJ Yuca]

you are rather more into just talking about it and conveying "expertise"

Seriously?

(I'm no SAR expert so anyone is welcome to correct me.)

My non-expert opinions:

I'm no expert but I can give you my personal opinion

I don't know a damn thing about timba so don't take this as an expert opinion

I'm no expert

I've never claimed to be an expert although I know something

I'm no expert in r&b or timba so you may be correct.

To my non-expert ears

in my non-expert opinion.

PS I'm no expert so if anyone can correct any of the above - preferable with evidence to justify the corrections - please do so.

There are loads more but I can't be bothered.

 

[1derpalm]

Can't recall having heard of on 1.5 before.



I have never heard of casino being traditionally danced contratiempo but it's possible. In NY there are and have been various on 2 timings, although I'm sure the most common form of NY on 2 since the 90s (i.e. danced on beats 1, 2 and 3) has never existed in Cuba. Nonetheless in the 50s when son was popular in Cuba, contratiempo - essentially on 2 - may well have been the most common timing. I'm sure it was at the least the most popular timing with better dancers.

Secret shaolin mistype technique.

 

[1derpalm]

I see it a lot on the dance floor. It looks miserable. Worst part, is people think they are dancing on 2/to the tumbao when dancing to the "and of 1".

mistype. meant 5.

 

[Governor Moonbeam]

Yet another timing thread - perception of timing, on1, on2 and P2

this is a GREAT breakdown. Would love to have seen the "to music" part of it. you mean this one?

www.salsaforums.com

It's the back step they use extensively in son. But as I say the syncopation is different, also I have no idea if it appeared in cumbia before son.

If you can dance slow, you can dance fast...

I think that dancing fast will expose any weaknesses in your technique ... Dancing fast can just as easily hide weaknesses technique. I’d even propose that dancing fast or slow may require different techniques - just like walking has a different technique from running.

www.salsaforums.com

Etymology of the term contra tiempo, why contra tiempo = on2

It's not about the sequence but the beat on which the break occurs. As I previously stated, the "1" is dominant ( the downbeat ) so one would think that this would be the point to use for breaks.. but... the clave says other wise.. ergo, contra tiempo..I think it is important to make this...

www.salsaforums.com

OK. I never really think of son having a basic step as I only see it in a performance setting and the dancers immediately start walking. But I saw the vid in the thread plus another one and I get the cumbia similarity.

I still would like a definition of syncopation other than an old Terence quote.

 

[Governor Moonbeam]

OK. I never really think of son having a basic step as I only see it in a performance setting and the dancers immediately start walking. But I saw the vid in the thread plus another one and I get the cumbia similarity.

I still would like a definition of syncopation other than an old Terence quote.

Nevermind, I figured it out. But I don't know if I buy the fact that the basic cumbia step is "syncopated".

 

[DJ Yuca]

Nevermind, I figured it out. But I don't know if I buy the fact that the basic cumbia step is "syncopated".

As I see it, in son the step is on 2, 3 and 4, whereas in cumbia it's 1 and 2, 3 and 4.

I have never learnt or danced son but I've seen cumbia danced a number of times and dance it myself occasionally, and that syncopation works well with the music. Although in Colombia the side to side step may also be popular, and I think there are plenty of minor variations.

1 and 2, 3 and 4 is also the rhythm that untrained S American dancers use constantly for a back step throughout any salsa track.

 

[Governor Moonbeam]

As I see it, in son the step is on 2, 3 and 4, whereas in cumbia it's 1 and 2, 3 and 4.

I have never learnt or danced son but I've seen cumbia danced a number of times and dance it myself occasionally, and that syncopation works well with the music. Although in Colombia the side to side step may also be popular, and I think there are plenty of minor variations.

1 and 2, 3 and 4 is also the rhythm that untrained S American dancers use constantly for a back step throughout any salsa track.

OK I think I finally understand you now.

You/Terence are/were counting cumbia as "1 and "2" instead of 1, 2, 3 etc.

And the reason you are doing that is because the cumbia basic is kind of a "bounce step" for lack of a better term whereas in salsa/son/casino you are more evenly marking your 2's and 6's (if you are dancing On1) and therefore you are more "grounded" for better or worse. Or maybe "weight transfer" is the better term.

And so essentially you are saying that the cumbia basic is 1 2 3 4 with the "and" as the syncopated step.

For sure I have danced salsa w/ feral latinas who dance that way.

 

[DJ Yuca]

You/Terence are/were counting cumbia as "1 and "2" instead of 1, 2, 3 etc.

And the reason you are doing that is because the cumbia basic is kind of a "bounce step"

Exactly. 1 and 2, 3 and 4. Repeat. Whereas in son I assume it would be 2, 3, 4 then pause on 1. Very different timing.

For sure I have danced salsa w/ feral latinas who dance that way.

I'm not sure I'd class 99.9% of S America's female population as feral.

 

[Jaime_Pipoca]

mistype. meant 5.

Typo or not, ppl still do 1.5/And of 1.

 

[RichNTacoma]

Separate question:
Why do you pontificate on dances you do not dance nor have taken lessons in and that are danced to music you do not like?
Makes no sense to me.

Many of your comments in this thread just feel like insults and meanness. (and not really just in this above post, but the tone throughout). Perhaps take a deep breath and check yourself.

 

[Offbeat]

Typo or not, ppl still do 1.5/And of 1.

There were several long discussion that most famous ETon2, especially NYers, step on 8 or 8&, rather than on1. Someone pulled up a video of ET’s dancing to prove that.

Stepping on & before and after a beat is par for the course. I said it before. Given the tempo of most salsa songs, there is no guarantee of consistent stepping on the beat without ever inadvertently stepping on the & (half beat early or late).

 

[1derpalm]

Nevermind, I figured it out. But I don't know if I buy the fact that the basic cumbia step is "syncopated".

In my area the Cumbria step is danced 1. 345. 781. With a as bit of a hoppiness to it. Not really y definition of syncopated but I guess it is faced different everywhere.

 

[1derpalm]

Exactly. 1 and 2, 3 and 4. Repeat. Whereas in son I assume it would be 2, 3, 4 then pause on 1. Very different timing.



I'm not sure I'd class 99.9% of S America's female population as feral.

Son is emphasized on the 8. Technically the is the commencing step (to the side).

 

[rheemixed]

Went to an all bachata event last night. Attendance was much better than the more salsa focused ones I've attended recently. I think Imma have to buck up and learn how to bachata better now, I'm sorry everybody.

I don't know if I don't like bachata because I'm not well practised in it, because I don't like the music anywhere near as much as salsa, or because its too intimate for me dancing like that with random people (for sensual anyways, which is all people seem to dance or play music for).

If it's the first reason, I guess I just gotta power thru beginner hell and maybe I'll like it more. If it's the second, then I don't know, maybe the music will grow on me? I doubt it though, it just doesn't tickle my brain. If it's the third one, I'm not sure if I'll ever get over that hurdle. Maybe I gotta keep some consent forms in my back pocket with me when I ask for a dance so I feel more comfortable or something.

 

[1derpalm]

Went to an all bachata event last night. Attendance was much better than the more salsa focused ones I've attended recently. I think Imma have to buck up and learn how to bachata better now, I'm sorry everybody.

 

[songname]

I don't know, maybe the music will grow on me? I doubt it though, it just doesn't tickle my brain.

I don't think you'll get over that. I went to an all bachata event this Friday. The music they play is sh1t. You don't know when one song ends and another begins, they all sound the same. And I love bachata music, but it's not the music they play. For sensual it's such boring uninspiring music with the part for the body rolls always in the same spot. But the dancing can be really good, a lot of control and musicality.

 

[Remgre]

Hi salseros and @Sabrosura,

I've been an avid salsero (dancing with knowledge) for 6 years now. I love salsa music on many levels (being a Spanish speaker), it truly makes me want to dance. But I've been frustrated for some time now, feeling unappreciated as a leader, wham bam thank you mam type of deal.

During this time I scoffed at sensual bachata, zouk, kizomba, even tango to a degree, you know.. sh1t music, cringy movements. I've been doing tango intensely for 10 months now. Still don't like %70 of the tango music (I prefer to dance to Nuevo or alternative.) but I'm in love with the dance. It's pushed my salsa dance/leading to another level without ever practicing something new in salsa.

Because of this experience I started dancing more bachata and dabbling in zouk and kizomba. I can say now that the connection I get with my partners in those dances is way more rewarding than salsa. Leading (pun intended) to better musicality, awareness, expression.

I dance socially 5-6 times a week, of it %75 is now not salsa. On some nights I'll do a tango then salsa event. They complement nicely, tango takes little energy compared to salsa. Salsa is like exercise to burn off steam now. Now I'm aware there are very few followers in salsa who offer a real connection. Often the fault lies with the music, DJs for some reason rarely play songs below 90bpm, resulting in a faster pace dance that gravitates towards established patterns which everyone seems to be slaves to and very hard to break out of. Connection is mostly only through the hands. The good followers in the other dances I mentioned come ready to connect and play. It's much more rewarding.

Sabrosura had a point and I was ignorant. Music is till sh1t though I'll probably hit West coast swing at some point.

You know when I go to a (Cuban) salsa party there is a party. People are having fun they are drinking enjoying talking and having fun together. A Kizomba gathering looks more like a funeral in comparison. All that one on one connection is killing the party.

 

[DJ Yuca]

Technically the is the commencing step (to the side).

What about the? Or the?

 

[songname]

You know when I go to a (Cuban) salsa party there is a party. People are having fun they are drinking enjoying talking and having fun together.

It's pretty much a consensus that alcohol is sh1t. I mean I do it sometimes.. but every time I do I remember how sh1t and what a racket it is. And depending on it for a good time is reducing oneself.