Don't focus just about Mambo or Salsa on2 because that's just 20% of what the salsa word means for real
- Thread starter Smejmoon
- Start date
granrey
Son Montuno
where the evidence they have these choices?
Good music is not produced free. You need alcohol/music clubs, private bands, managers, disk producers, commercial radio stations, etc. In socialists/communist societies these entities are usually not existence.
Pretty much no way, the cuban goverment was playing rock in public radio stations. Maybe late 90's?
Cubans might know rock prior the Castro but any new song was most likely through radio stations from the USA. Pretty much no stations from nearby latin countries were reaching Cuba.
Bachata, Merengue, Salsa is a very complex network.
Something that people usually ignore is while most bachatas are produced in the DR. But a huge percentage of these songs come from Colombian songs (ballenatos) transferred to Bachata. The money trail is very complex.
Cubans were not even allowed to be catholic anymore for any years.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Your thinking defies all logic. One more time: in 1960s and 1970s Cuba they continued to produce their own music (son, trova and whatever else) but it was not as popular as it was pre revolution. Instead the more popular music was rock. Imported and local groups. You seem convinced that rock became popular because, due to communism, there was no other music available - how on earth could that be the case?
Imported music came in on vinyl and from radio stations. Vinyl could be imported from anywhere, particularly anywhere geographically close. The US, the Caribbean, Brazil and the rest of Latin America. In those disparate parts of the world all sorts of music was popular: rock, soul/funk, Brazilian popular music, reggae, salsa, jazz, country etc etc.
Likewise US radio stations played all sorts of music and certainly played the most popular music of the time: rock and soul/funk, and to a lesser extent salsa, country, jazz, maybe even reggae and Brazilian music.
The idea that the only music US radio stations was playing was rock and the only imported discs available were rock is ludicrous. And of course Cubans had the choice to continue with their own music.
Yes communism and the embargo discouraged/depressed the Cuban music industry. To conclude from that they also imposed rock music on the population makes no sense.
True, but at the same time, i doubt local genres became popular throughout latinamerica. I would not be surprised if rock and disco music had a wider reach than local genres.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I don't quite understand your point. Salsa was massive in many Latin American countries and popular pretty much everywhere apart from Cuba. Rock and soul/funk then later disco were also popular throughout Latin America I think. Cumbia was also pretty big in various countries (Colombia, Peru and Mexico). Then each country has its own Latin pop and its own genres e.g. vallenato, ranchera etc etc.
However to say exactly which genres were most popular in each Latin country would require very specific, specialist knowledge which I don't have access to personally. Nor can I see how it would be of relevance. But the limited evidence I have re. Cuba states that rock was the most popular music there in the 1960s and 1970s.
However to say exactly which genres were most popular in each Latin country would require very specific, specialist knowledge which I don't have access to personally. Nor can I see how it would be of relevance. But the limited evidence I have re. Cuba states that rock was the most popular music there in the 1960s and 1970s.
I don't see how communist regime limits pop music. Yes - marginal genres can't evolve easy with committee approvements and stuff, they'll be restricted to garages, but impact on pop should be negligible.
The most popular pop music composer /producer in our country looks back to ussr with nostalgia.
Actually most of pop I know comes from commie time, because I was a kid then and it was everywhere. Totalitarian regime doesn't mean music is restricted to hymns and marches.
Look at this as medieval court music. If you can convince local lord (party committee culture section, factory or kolkhoz culture secretary, and so on powerful people), you can get rehearsal room, instruments, stage time in house of culture. If you get approval from higher forces, you'll get salary, professorship, might be sponsored by army or something. "Qualified specialists" would censor your music and offer creative suggestions, but that would be mostly with regard to lyrics. Other than that you'd have a lot of free time to jam and alcohol was cheaper then and girls prettier.
The most popular pop music composer /producer in our country looks back to ussr with nostalgia.
Actually most of pop I know comes from commie time, because I was a kid then and it was everywhere. Totalitarian regime doesn't mean music is restricted to hymns and marches.
Look at this as medieval court music. If you can convince local lord (party committee culture section, factory or kolkhoz culture secretary, and so on powerful people), you can get rehearsal room, instruments, stage time in house of culture. If you get approval from higher forces, you'll get salary, professorship, might be sponsored by army or something. "Qualified specialists" would censor your music and offer creative suggestions, but that would be mostly with regard to lyrics. Other than that you'd have a lot of free time to jam and alcohol was cheaper then and girls prettier.
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granrey
Son Montuno
I'm very surprised that people think that cubans had money to "import" music in vynil format.
I'm very surprised you guys think the regime would play american music on their own radio stations.
I'm very surprised people admit Son and other rhythms were popular before the regime but cannot understand why that changed after the regime.
It's kind like history did not happen or has been forgotten.
en.m.wikipedia.org
The 1960s Edit
"The development of Cuban rock was interrupted by the Cuban Revolution. In the same way that Joseph Stalin had interfered in the culture of the Soviet Union in previous years, Fidel Castro banned rock music in 1961, for being a corrupt North American influence that didn't belong in the new communist Cuba; a position that ironically was in contradiction with the own liberal vision of Karl Marx with respect to the arts and culture; not to mention that the international rock groups had embraced in general a leftist ideology by then."
I bet this was not played in Cuba
I'm very surprised you guys think the regime would play american music on their own radio stations.
I'm very surprised people admit Son and other rhythms were popular before the regime but cannot understand why that changed after the regime.
It's kind like history did not happen or has been forgotten.
Cuban rock - Wikipedia
The 1960s Edit
"The development of Cuban rock was interrupted by the Cuban Revolution. In the same way that Joseph Stalin had interfered in the culture of the Soviet Union in previous years, Fidel Castro banned rock music in 1961, for being a corrupt North American influence that didn't belong in the new communist Cuba; a position that ironically was in contradiction with the own liberal vision of Karl Marx with respect to the arts and culture; not to mention that the international rock groups had embraced in general a leftist ideology by then."
I bet this was not played in Cuba
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
What are you trying to say? That you don't think Cubans listened to rock music in the 1960s and 1970s? I wasn't there but that's what evidence states and you don't seem to have any evidence to the contrary so why should I listen to you? You hate communism therefore nothing that could possibly be conceived of as good could have happened in communist Cuba? I don't even consider Cubans listening to rock music as being good or bad. It just happened.
In answer to your point above: I don't know the specifics of how the music was diffused. Were imported discs scarce or common? Did Cuban record labels press their own versions of US rock? No idea. But the fact remains: US rock was very popular in Cuba in the 1960s and 1970s. It was against the wishes of Castro but it still happened.
Did anyone say they did?
Who exactly has said that they can't understand why son and other rhythms became less popular after communism? It was a post I missed.
Considering you ignore all evidence whilst refusing to provide any evidence of your own, I think it's you who is anti-history.
I think you'll find that's not rock music it's a genre known as 'salsa'. A genre that, as has already been stated, only became popular in Cuba with the advent of salsa romántica.
I understand that you hate communism but that doesn't mean that any discussion of Cuba that doesn't implicitly criticise communism must therefore be historically inaccurate.
granrey
Son Montuno
I dont hate communism and even if so. facts are facts.
rock was not played in Cuban radio stations, events, imported, neither sold in stores, etc. IT WAS PROHIBITED BY THE GOVERMENT.
Again Cubans most likely hated boring goverment radio and the only good commercial stations
they could listen were american ones which played rock and as result they develop a taste for it and became popular undergound. But again it was not a choice.
The 1960s Edit
"The development of Cuban rock was interrupted by the Cuban Revolution. In the same way that Joseph Stalin had interfered in the culture of the Soviet Union in previous years, Fidel Castro banned rock music in 1961, for being a corrupt North American influence that didn't belong in the new communist Cuba; a position that ironically was in contradiction with the own liberal vision of Karl Marx with respect to the arts and culture; not to mention that the international rock groups had embraced in general a leftist ideology by then."
This particular quote from you below is not true and has no historical evidence.
"Imported music came in on vinyl and from radio stations. Vinyl could be imported from anywhere, particularly anywhere geographically close. "
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
How many times? US radio stations did not only play rock music. Other music was very popular in the US in the 1960s and 1970s. Particularly r&b/soul moving to funk then disco. Yes US music was prohibited by the authorities - you seem to be saying that that meant that Cubans had no choice but to listen to rock. Well for a start they could have listened to their own music or to soul/funk.
So how did US rock'n'roll then rock become popular in Cuba if US radio stations and imported vinyl were unavailable? In fact you've just admitted above that Cubans listened to US radio stations. As for vinyl? Maybe US rock became popular purely from the radio and imported vinyl didn't exist. I would find that very surprising but as I said earlier:
granrey
Son Montuno
CUBAN ANTENNAS PICK UP U.S. TV, RADIO BROADCASTS
HAVANA — In Cuba, antennas point north. Cubans of all ages regularly tune in to U.S. commercial radio stations from Miami or the Florida Keys, as well as sports, movies and news programs on U.S. television. Driving along the Malecon,…
www.sun-sentinel.com
This is an article from 1989 mentioning Cubans listening american commercial radio.
granrey
Son Montuno
As a final evidence because I'm not planning to spend all the time on this.
This in an interview to Jose Alberto Canario.
According to this interview @ 10:30. The first salsa band that visited Cuba was "La tipica 73" in the late 70's. True or false is not that important.
If you continue on the interview @ 15:15. Canario mentioned how complicated was going to Cuba because by doing so you would be almost banned in the states to they point they would not play you in american radio, clubs, etc. So Salsa artists tried to stay away from Cuba.
Salsa not being popular in Cuba was not because of choice.
This in an interview to Jose Alberto Canario.
According to this interview @ 10:30. The first salsa band that visited Cuba was "La tipica 73" in the late 70's. True or false is not that important.
If you continue on the interview @ 15:15. Canario mentioned how complicated was going to Cuba because by doing so you would be almost banned in the states to they point they would not play you in american radio, clubs, etc. So Salsa artists tried to stay away from Cuba.
Salsa not being popular in Cuba was not because of choice.