Don't focus just about Mambo or Salsa on2 because that's just 20% of what the salsa word means for real

DJ Yuca said:
I don't know much about rock music so maybe they were the greatest rock band ever - but the greatest pop band ever? No way. Most of the greatest pop music ever had already been made by the time the Beatles started recording and they could never compete with the likes of the Drifters.
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I don't know man, I think you're going against mainstream. Which is ok, but not with regard to pop.

Which Drifters songs people sing today? I've never heard of them. I can not go a month without hearing Beatles song played somewhere.

Anyway, when I listen to early Los Van Van, I think they might do well in 60's UK.
 
Re. the Drifters: it's not just the quality of their songs - which are generally superior to those of the Beatles, although I will admit that Yesterday is a classic song - it's the quality of their recordings. The Drifters were wonderful singers backed by incredible session musicians. The Beatles were reasonable singers and musicians. Big difference.

Plenty of the Drifters' tunes have been covered, although I can't recall any of the covers being any good. (Even your double Feargal Sharkey did a version of a Drifters tune when he was a young man.) Whereas with the Beatles it's normally the reverse - they've also been covered numerous times but it's the covers that sound superior to those of us used to a high standard of musicianship.
 
DJ Yuca said:
Re. the Drifters: it's not just the quality of their songs - which are generally superior to those of the Beatles, although I will admit that Yesterday is a classic song - it's the quality of their recordings. The Drifters were wonderful singers backed by incredible session musicians. The Beatles were reasonable singers and musicians. Big difference.

Plenty of the Drifters' tunes have been covered, although I can't recall any of the covers being any good. (Even your double Feargal Sharkey did a version of a Drifters tune when he was a young man.) Whereas with the Beatles it's normally the reverse - they've also been covered numerous times but it's the covers that sound superior to those of us used to a high standard of musicianship.
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Yeah, that's my point. Their material lives on in our hearts. :) To create sticky melodies seems hardest part in pop. Good arrangements, recordings, musicians - you can get for money. Can't buy good melodies. Though that's what crooners like Frank Sinatra and Hector Lavoe did.. well, I stand corrected.
Anyway, I think only melody has long term value for common folk. That's how folk songs are born.
 
Smejmoon said:
Anyway, when I listen to early Los Van Van, I think they might do well in 60's UK.
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If not just Formell but the whole group had decamped to 1960s London I really think the whole history of popular music would have changed. A little or maybe even a lot. Aside from Edmundo Ros (whose music was very diluted and cabaret) there were no Latin American bands in the UK in the 1960s (that I know of) meaning Latin music had little to no direct influence on the 1960s UK music scene. With a band as experimental as Van Van around back then, who knows what would have happened?

Although I suppose they would have had to dilute or compromise their music a lot just to survive.
 
Smejmoon said:
Yeah, that's my point. Their material lives on in our hearts. :) To create sticky melodies seems hardest part in pop. Good arrangements, recordings, musicians - you can get for money. Can't buy good melodies. Though that's what crooners like Frank Sinatra and Hector Lavoe did.. well, I stand corrected.
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Like I said the Drifters have been covered to death. But the difference is that the good artists don't generally bother covering them, I assume because they know the original is perfection.
 
Incidentally I can only recall one Drifters song covered by a salsa artist whereas the Beatles have had whole albums of salsa covers.
 
timberamayor said:
You can suggest it to some band and maybe they will make millions!
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I don't think anyone is making millions from salsa nowadays except Marc Anthony and a few others. Maybe you're right and a method to achieve commercial success is to make covers of very good old songs. It worked for the Boogaloo Assassins with No No No.
 
The only salsa cover of a Drifters tune that I can think of does nothing for me, despite it being a great tune covered by a great artist. That doesn't bode well.

There's a special prize* for the first person to name the track.

(*The prize will be kudos.)
 
DJ Yuca said:
If not just Formell but the whole group had decamped to 1960s London I really think the whole history of popular music would have changed. A little or maybe even a lot. Aside from Edmundo Ros (whose music was very diluted and cabaret) there were no Latin American bands in the UK in the 1960s (that I know of) meaning Latin music had little to no direct influence on the 1960s UK music scene. With a band as experimental as Van Van around back then, who knows what would have happened?

Although I suppose they would have had to dilute or compromise their music a lot just to survive.
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Interesting idea. I was not alive back then, but from stories it seems that bands who did well in 60's were with British musicians who played American music in German clubs. :D
 
Incidentally I don't know of any Fats Domino tunes in salsa however the Beatles did a tune (Lady Madonna) as a tribute to Fats that he then covered.
 
Smejmoon said:
Interesting idea. I was not alive back then, but from stories it seems that bands who did well in 60's were with British musicians who played American music in German clubs. :D
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The only band I know of who played in Germany were the Beatles, and I think it was only after returning to the UK that they gained real success. But yes pretty much all the nascent UK rock scene was based on US genres such as blues, r&b and rock'n'roll. Ironically it was this music i.e. the British version that then swept the USA.
 
I've just finished rereading Los rostros de la salsa which includes an interview with Formell. The only non-Cuban musicians he mentions listening to in his youth are Elvis Presley and the Beatles.
 
DJ Yuca said:
I've just finished rereading Los rostros de la salsa which includes an interview with Formell. The only non-Cuban musicians he mentions listening to in his youth are Elvis Presley and the Beatles.
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Well... I'd say he just can't remember and doesn't care what he listened 60 years ago. I hardly remember stuff from 20 years back, 30 - it's quite fuzzy.
 
Also it's not the focus of the interview. If he'd been asked more specifically about his early influences he probably would have replied in more depth.

The author Leonardo Padura mentions that in early 70s Cuba the artists he and his friends were into were the Beatles, Elton John, Chicago, Creedence Clearwater Revival and Blood, Sweat and Tears. Also he mentions Cuban rock bands of whom I know nothing and can't be bothered to see if they exist on Youtube: los Kent, los Gnomos (although I've heard they weren't very big), los Signos and Dimensión Vertical. I strongly suspect those bands are more or less forgotten today.
 
DJ Yuca said:
I don't know much about rock music so maybe they were the greatest rock band ever - but the greatest pop band ever? No way. Most of the greatest pop music ever had already been made by the time the Beatles started recording and they could never compete with the likes of the Drifters.
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I thought pop as genre in the seventies followed after the Beatles era of sixties. Are you applying label "pop" in retrospect?

It is hard to tell difference between rock and pop songs. Many soft rock and pop have almost no day light between them.
 
Smejmoon said:
Well... I'd say he just can't remember and doesn't care what he listened 60 years ago. I hardly remember stuff from 20 years back, 30 - it's quite fuzzy.
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I think everyone remembers what they listened to in teens and twenties. No matter how varied genres. Majority sticks to one or two.
 
TikiTaka said:
But when did they start to incorporate these pop/rock inspired sounds? with cuban son?
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According to the aforementioned book, Formell joined Orquesta Revé in 1967 and he began to change the direction of the group, in his words: 'which clashed with some of the concepts of Cuban music in an era in which it was stagnating'. Sounds like that was the beginning of the update of son to include the popular external rock influences, although I assume it was when Formell started Van Van that he really got free reign to mix son with rock.
 
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