Traditionally and culturally, salsa is lead and follow sort of like dominance, assertiveness to submissiveness, compliance. Culturally, it's quite tolerated when a latin man is flirtatious or even overtly even when their husbands or boyfriends are around. Try doing this as a white guy and it'll just look creepy. Sure, alot of the past dogs are getting replaced with a more progressive outlook which I personally think is very good for all. But I've never seen or remember something like the notjustchisme social account, they say that it is to be a safe space for women. I think abuse just doesn't happen from a teacher student medium, otherwise you can also just include yoga, or gymnastic institutions or pretty much any place that has a student teacher dynamic. But the male sort of, patriarchy, is very rooted in cultures like salsa dance. A talented salsa guy would be able to dance with a celebrity looking woman even when he's decent or close to average looking at best, a friend jokes that this means women will now just choose the best looking guys overlooking skill lol. So then what would something like not justchisme do? This is also if momentum keeps going or will it just be forgotten about? With the recent empire NY controversy, maybe it's 10 years too late?
Do you think the empowered women movement will help or break latin dance or salsa culture?
- Thread starter artimalid
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- women equality
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
How did you come to the conclusion that men of Latin American descent would tolerate having some schmuck comport themselves in a flirtatious manner with their partner?
He has a lot of idle time and rich imagination
P.S. - @artimalid there are a lot of strong minded women, who still want to be followers or not having to make decisions all the time.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
A lot of Latins could be classed as white.
The USA census form and all employment applications ask you to select your ethnicity or race. One of the choices is “non-white Hispanic”
RichNTacoma
Changui
Wound victories over sexism and patriarchy harm salsa? The initial post is a total mess of outdated tropes about just about everyone. I am not sure if you mean to inflame, but you clearly need to take a step back and think that is that not your intention. At a minimum, it is pretty sexist.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
You understood the op? I can't decipher it.
RichNTacoma
Changui
ROFL. I was being perhaps more generous than you
He has a lot of idle time and rich imagination
P.S. - @artimalid there are a lot of strong minded women, who still want to be followers or not having to make decisions all the time.
I think my confusion comes from the current women empowerment going on. It's true that alot of men abuse their power especially in latin dance studios. But I think the movement for equality wouldn't hurt the technicalities of dance, especially in latin dance, don't put it all on me have your own spins and flairs, lead me too and don't be afraid of it, show me or help me with creativity. Have it a true equal form of dance.
Watch this about the silence in the latin scene. I don't think this is limited to just dance schools, happens in any typical salsa night.
Honestly I don't know what Isabelle Freiberger is talking about, while she says "we all know". I think she speaks to the scene of event organizers and well-known instructors, apparently they might know more about some guys in that scene. Then she is right to say they should do something about it.
Hence could it make or break the scene? Some well known instructors have a lot of people looking up to them, yes controversy exists yet it's tied with well known artists some you would even be surprised. It's not just at that level, it happens on a normal dance floor but alot of people are hush about it. Some people are overt about it and it seems to always be normalized.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
I don't know where you reside but Women taking the lead in social dances to Afro Cuban music had/has already been going on since the days of the Palladium. Taking instruction and following the structure they impart between a leader (primarily male) and the follower (primarily female) is one thing. But for decades Women have flipped the script. A couple dancers from the 1990s-2000s generation come to mind, like Candy Mena and Nancy "La Chacon" Ortiz. In fact Candy did choreographed routines with other Women doing partnerwork where her role was the leader.
What you propose is not so cut and dry, because it's easier said than done. A lot of guys who claim to want to be led can't follow for the life of them. It takes two dance equals. Who have a strong connection to each other, and execute seamlessly, without speaking a single word to the other, and allow the other to "rake the wheel", while the other remains "in the cut," awaiting for that unspoken "cue" from their partner to fall back into the pocket of their initial role.
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Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
Where do you live bro?
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
You answered your own question. It will never make the scene, but it certainly won't break it either. THAT History shows us so.
When you have a society that takes up a specific dance for the first time, and 90 days later, they put on a costume, have a photo shoot, update their social media accounts, and engage in self,promotion as instructors and are.making themselves available for performance hire, you're going to have men acting like predators. Or Women acting like chicken heads, just to guarantee they are in the front AND Center of the dance company they are members of. Or adapting instruction from one dance school and rebranding it as your own "style" to the saps in your neck if the woods.
If people are upset the "scene" is silent, then what's stopping then from blowing up the perpetrators' spot? In such clique-ish scenes like dance communities, music communities, or what have you, there will be some form of blowback to your idealism in doing what you feel.is right. Some people can't handle it and prefer to mind their business. Others don't care what people think and go for broke. The important thing is that, in the situation thst video is describing, it's important to support the victim and do so quietly. Let them find their courage to come forward, with your support.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
I wasn't a religious frequenter to dance socials or Congresses at all. So I'm not sure if the comment in bold is restricted to that scene. It could be true. But on the nightclub or dance lounge level, where 80% had no prior dance instruction and could drink alcohol like a fish, I NEVER saw ANY man or kid walk up to a Woman to ask them to dance, knowing their boyfriend is husband are right next to them. That was an invitation to cement shoes. They would be punched in the mouth. Because in THIS social setting it wasn't about getting your dance fix. If you were single and on the prowl, it was about getting laid. Everyone KNOWS why you approached that particular female. Females who were not chaperoned or not in a relationship, and literally just wanted to dance, only cared if the "Latin from Manhattan," raising their eyebrows up and down at her, were "good" dancers. But, culturally speaking, what you described is not tolerated. In fact, you would get stabbed. Stop playing man.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Even in the majority of salsa clubs in Latin America today, that probably still holds true. As for actually flirting with a woman who's with her man: only someone looking for a fight would try it.
But why do you keep quoting me when you're responding to the op?
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
I've definitely been involved in dance communities where a man was called out for his bad behavior. They took him to the side and let him know that if they get more complaints he is out. Another guy was told to never come back again. Women will often talk to other women and ask if they are the only women who Gentlemen A "accidentally" touched inappropriately. I have found a stronger community like this especially when it is in a bigger city (sorry to say that). Sometimes in the smaller towns/cities, I find people do tend to be more silent. I am in India right now in a small town, and rape is more common here. Women aren't allowed to go out alone after 8 pm (especially in smaller communites). I think what is most important is there is a way that people have a way to report others if there is a problem. If a women is abused in some way, there has to be a open channel where she can go have a chat with the manager or even send an annonymous message. When enough people are aware of what is going on it tends to get shut down.