African-American Jazz Helped Create the Foundation of Salsa Music
- Thread starter AguaDulce
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This is one of the best videos I've seen because there is first hand testimony from Charlie Chase, who became a DJ in 1975 when he was 16 years old. He talks about why he got into it and also how Latinos used to ask him why he liked playing that "Jungle Bunny Music" referring to the Hip Hop music that was played in the mid-70s. There is also a lot of other good information in this video just purely from a Latino perspective, but Chase is especially good because he was around and old enough to have a more realistic perspective of how things were. He also was very candid as were some of the other panelists. Chase never made the big dollars, but it was guys like him that helped lay the foundation so that people could make the big dollars decades later. Likewise, it was the guys that Chase saw and decided to emulate that laid the groundwork for him and so on.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
It boggles my brain. How large group of people who's musical identity is predominantly African can then diss African influenced music
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
African-Americans were publicly "dissing" Rap, turntablism, bBoying for the first 20 years ('73-'93). Don Cornelius of Soul Train was dead set against it, but was 'forced' by the board at tribune entertainment to give in and provide it a platform. Film actor Wesley Snipes made the comment in the early 1990s that Rap music would eventually disappear in his defense of why the film he starred in, "Sugar Hill," utilized its entire musical soundtrack with Jazz, rather than Rap music. Especially after r tge music got raunchuer and more graphically violent (2 Live Crew, N.W.A., Apache, etc).
1derpalm
Son Montuno
I was actually referring to PRs who dissed black people but claim salsa, since it is predominantly African.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
You stated you couldn't understand how a "... large group of people [Puertoricans] who's musical identity is predominantly African can then diss African influenced music."
And my retort was that African-Americans have done this all the time. To be clear throughout the 20th century there have been U.S. "Black" voices who have 'dissed' Ragtime, Swing, beBop, Funk, Disco, Rap, etc. "Race" isn't a factor, per se (unless they are). A lot of the anti-[pick a genre] stems from a superiority complex. Why do many "Salseros" who are of Latin American origin disdain Merengue so much? Or Cumbia? Or Joropo? Or Seis? They just don't dig it regardless of any ethnic or cultural connection to their nationality or heritage. It's the same as asking why do non-Latinos dig Afro-Cuban music? They're human. They just do. It speaks to them. Why does a segment not dig mariachi music? They're human. They just don't. It doesn't speak to them.
BTW-As a Puertorican I can tell you from my own observations within the culture that, historically, the musical identity of Puertoricans is not perceived as being predominantly African. In fact, a good chunk don't even recognize it. The simple answer as to why is the obvious one.
But hip hop has Caribbean/Jamaican roots. The genre isn’t any more dynamic than dancehall which is emerged from, but has been heavily promoted by US multinationals. The lyrical content is more negative also. It is true that reggae emerged from New Orleans r&b (a fact that Jamaicans celebrate) but we know of the Caribbean influences in the city.
Herc is Jamaican and just transferred the sound system culture to the US. Bambataa, KRS1, Flash, and many more of those pioneers have West Indian roots. The same culture was transferred to West Indian communities in the Uk, but the Americans weren’t ready for reggae (still aren’t), so funk and disco breaks were used as backing tracks. Hip hop is an Americanized version of Jamaican DJ and dub music. Of course it took on many more elements such as graffiti and break dancing (which also has older roots), but the genesis is Jamaican.
In South America, at least in Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, and Bolivia, I have never heard anything that would allude to the african ancestry of a music being not being recognized. For example, in Saya music, which is a mix of African, European, and Indigenous, they often refer to its (partly) African origin:
Can you elaborate on what you mean since there where big sound systems and DJs in NYC before Cool Herc? Provide some links, citations, videos or something.
Please provide some evidence that supports this assertion. I'm not sure what you mean.
This is a pretty good piece narrative by Chuck D about the influence/contribution of Queens/Brooklyn in the foundation/formation/creation of Hip Hop. Not saying I agree with everything, but people from NYC know how big NYC is and people from different parts did different things. Brought back some memories of when people used to say things like "the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire ... we don't need no water let the MF burn" or people chanting to the music before there were MCs. Guys like Grandmaster Flowers in the very early 70s before Grandmaster Flash and other grandmasters. Crews like Nu Sounds before people like Herc were being mentioned.
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Saying any music genre born in the Americas is "predominantly African" or "predominantly European" strips people of their own unique history, cultural heritage and identity.
You could argue that is has "predominantly african roots", but saying any genre born in the Americas is predominantly African or European is just inaccurate.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
African loan words, Hemiola, orisha references, clave, congos, bongo and harmonies. That is predominantly Africann to me. I kinda understand what you're saying but I stand by my feelings.
Like.. hip hop is considered African American even though Apache is a whitey boy song (originally) and then remade by an all white band.
The Mexican is composed and performed by a British Prog rock band.
Those are like the first 2 books of Moses to hip hop (bboys at least).
That is like saying any European recipe that uses prefominantly potato or corn is "predominantly South American". The ingredients are, but the recipe and the dish is not.
And the Colombians (Afro descendants, Indios, mixed) are very vocal about the African origins of their music. I was going to post a recent link on champeta (a genre that i've been following since the 90's) but I'm not allowed to.
Sorry, I disagree with this. There are some genres that are predominantly African and with very little European input. For example, some styles are essentially percussion and vocals with were little western melodic, or harmonic input.
I can't post links (haven't posted enough), but it is known that rap & hip hop emerged from Jamaican toasting and sound system culture. Just Google jamaican roots of hip hop.
You are not understanding the argument. Even if it has zero European influence (or Zero African fluence) it will have its unique historical context and identity. You cannot strip people of their identity and history just because of their geographic origin.
A russian recipe that only uses Corn and Potato will be russian, not South/Central American
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