Where has the Cha-Cha in New York gone?

I really love Cha Cha Cha, I think maybe even more than Mambo as the music is sultry and l enjoy the footwork. Even during fast Mambos I make eye contact, smile and take advantage of every moment for body movements but Cha Cha allows the space for me to really savor the moment with my partner. I am disappointed it is not played more in NY as I thought it would be. I have heard that in the Palladium days Cha Cha was played every 3-4 song as a break from Mambo which I wish was still happening. Dominican Bachata is hot especially with a Dominican lead but in LA it's mostly several styles thrown together. I am taking some privates in club Cha Cha because there isn't enough people for a group class, so I agree with all the dance crazes happening Cha Cha needs some new marketing to make it popular again, FM needs a promoter...LOL.
 
vit said:
I mean, in NY style there are usually many multiples spins, copas etc - you surely don't think it fits well to slow cha cha music ??
Click to expand...
I think that copas can fit okay to medium paced Cha-Cha - particularly hesitation copas.

It´s really just spins that you need to go easy on if using NY salsa moves in ChaCha (and I don't see multiple spins as being a necessary part of NY salsa anyway...)
 
Sabrosura said:
I wonder if one reason for the lack of cha cha popularity is as simple as there not being many cha cha classes available.
Click to expand...
Sabrosura raises an interesting point. I know that in addition to Frankie Martinez, Melanie Torres of Dance On2, as well as Joe Burgos of Piel Canela used to offer Cha-Cha classes weekly, as opposed to some studios that offer it as an occasional specialty workshop. But even if there are a shortage of classes, I would think that people would still be intrigued enough to learn on their own (via Youtube at least-it's free). Since the chord beat timing is the same in NY Mambo On2 and Cha-cha, the transition should be easier to bridge than say for instance, learning Cha-Cha coming from an On1 background. Like others have said in previous posts, Cha-Cha usually clears the floor. It's an interesting observation of a vicious cycle-people clear out b/c they don't like or are unfamiliar with the music, but at the same time, how else will they be exposed to the glorious possibilities if they are unable to hear the beats and see people dancing to it?
 
I would love to take some classes. On my side of the bridge, almost all the salsa classes are on 1. I'm taking an on-2 class now. So hopefully it will help with Cha-Cha. Right now, whenever I try CHa-Cha, I end up on the wrong foot:oops:
 
As Alvin mentions we run a cha cha social - 70/80% cha cha and the rest solid Salsa. When we announced last year there was a lot of doubts about people coming along to a cha cha night but this is now a staple monthly night. It can be done if you really want to but it is not an easy or popular venture.

I have also been looking at the demographic of people that come to this night and wanted to put this out there...

I personally believe that the people who come to this nights really enjoy having more time to dance. More space for expression. Let me explain...

I personally believe that the vast majority of dancers rush from one move to another, or one shine to another. With Salsa music being generally a lot faster then what is labelled as cha cha means that it is easier to just rush from one thing to another. It is like a roller coaster ride - adrenaline filled fun. This I see as the majority of dancers...

When dancing to Cha cha (at least how we teach it) there is very little complex patterns or intricate footwork, but simpler stuff with more encouragement on playing with music.

So to summarise cha cha presents an opportunity and the space for actual dancing and personal expression. The vast majority of people don't want this in Salsa... this is why classes are becoming more sparse and music played less...

Just my two cents...
 
Relating back to the original post, the problem with where It has gone has got to be front and center with the djs. Other than Frankie Martinez playing good amounts of cha cha no one else does. And that's including the best socials in Ny, Jimmy antons, and lvg. I remember a few years ago getting tired of always having to sit out cha chas at these socials and it forced me to go home and work on my cha cha game. End of story, nowadays all you have to do is avoid frankies social and ergo no more having to challenge yourself to dance cha cha. So that's shame on NY djs, here is looking at you Jimmy anton and Antonio LA conga. Step your game back up. And force the dancers to step their game up. And for goodness when there are so many sublime cha chas out there, when you do play a song don't make it he weakest cha cha out there, because that reinforces subconsciously that you don't really want to play cha cha. Now to the other part of this that everyone seemed to really address, cha cha asks for a lot of trust, trust in yourself mostly, because you can't just bulldoze through a cha cha. It forces you to listen and interact with the music and your partner.. At a slower speed than you are used to.... It forces you to challenge yourself and to STEP your game up... And as a slight plug for dancers from Frankie Martinez, his dancers are comfortable in space in their own skins and generally have a ability to move that's not dependent on overt styling or turn patterns.. They aren't lost when they have to actually dance, which is what a cha cha forces you to do, no hiding behind continuous never ending turn patterns... No hiding behind never letting your partner go... So DJ's play more cha cha. dancers, dance them when they come on, if you don't feel ready, then find or demand a class or get in the studio or living room and play the heck out of some cha cha and live it and breathe it so that when you are out and a cha cha comes on, you ask a partner and our get down and funky and groovy.....
 
Unfortunately people tend to like songs that are very fast. It is hard to find anyone at a night club in NYC willing to slow down and just enjoy the music, instead of showing off how many turns they can do in 5mins.
 
aguerra said:
Unfortunately people tend to like songs that are very fast. It is hard to find anyone at a night club in NYC willing to slow down and just enjoy the music, instead of showing off how many turns they can do in 5mins.
Click to expand...
I would have to disagree with that statement.
 
aguerra said:
Maybe I'm going to the wrong clubs. LOL
Click to expand...
I was curious about that as well, Aguerra. There are plenty of "Latin" clubs/night in NYC, but not that many that cater to dancers and DANCING. Salsa socials on the other hand, are events created for dancers by dancers, there is not an age limit to enter, and alcohol is sold very minimally. The focus of the environment is centered on danceable songs, and an exploration of music and rhythms that branch outside of the commercial or mainstream. Having attended many of these club nights before I discovered socials, I can agree with you that much of the music and dance is of a different mindset. I used to frequent the old Copacabana near the Javits Center, and I can tell you, the only time I would hear a Cha-cha played is if one of the visiting bands played one. If you are unfamiliar, google "Jimmy Anton's social" or "La Vieja Guardia social." (SF is not letting me post the direct links) These socials may give you a happier dancing environment/experience. They sure do for me. :)
 
thepresenceon2 said:
Relating back to the original post, the problem with where It has gone has got to be front and center with the djs. Other than Frankie Martinez playing good amounts of cha cha no one else does. And that's including the best socials in Ny, Jimmy antons, and lvg. I remember a few years ago getting tired of always having to sit out cha chas at these socials and it forced me to go home and work on my cha cha game. End of story, nowadays all you have to do is avoid frankies social and ergo no more having to challenge yourself to dance cha cha. So that's shame on NY djs, here is looking at you Jimmy anton and Antonio LA conga. Step your game back up. And force the dancers to step their game up. And for goodness when there are so many sublime cha chas out there, when you do play a song don't make it he weakest cha cha out there, because that reinforces subconsciously that you don't really want to play cha cha. Now to the other part of this that everyone seemed to really address, cha cha asks for a lot of trust, trust in yourself mostly, because you can't just bulldoze through a cha cha. It forces you to listen and interact with the music and your partner.. At a slower speed than you are used to.... It forces you to challenge yourself and to STEP your game up... And as a slight plug for dancers from Frankie Martinez, his dancers are comfortable in space in their own skins and generally have a ability to move that's not dependent on overt styling or turn patterns.. They aren't lost when they have to actually dance, which is what a cha cha forces you to do, no hiding behind continuous never ending turn patterns... No hiding behind never letting your partner go... So DJ's play more cha cha. dancers, dance them when they come on, if you don't feel ready, then find or demand a class or get in the studio or living room and play the heck out of some cha cha and live it and breathe it so that when you are out and a cha cha comes on, you ask a partner and our get down and funky and groovy.....
Click to expand...
couldnt have said it better!!!! no wonder I love dancing Cha-cha with you!!!!!!!!!!
the old schoolers in Puerto Rico have a saying: "If you dont do Cha-cha (they call it Guajira!!) you cant call yourself a dancer!!!" :p
-----------
By the way: Marcus Nieves (On2 Instructor in New Jersey) has been known to teach cha-cha to his Intermediate dancers (which are the really advance classes), because they have demanded it. Also, because he himself has noticed (he said it class) that his students should not be sitting down during cha-cha's. ;-)
- things do change if the dancers demand it!!!
 
EMOYENO said:
couldnt have said it better!!!! no wonder I love dancing Cha-cha with you!!!!!!!!!!
the old schoolers in Puerto Rico have a saying: "If you dont do Cha-cha (they call it Guajira!!) you cant call yourself a dancer!!!" :p
-----------
By the way: Marcus Nieves (On2 Instructor in New Jersey) has been known to teach cha-cha to his Intermediate dancers (which are the really advance classes), because they have demanded it. Also, because he himself has noticed (he said it class) that his students should not be sitting down during cha-cha's. ;-)
- things do change if the dancers demand it!!!
Click to expand...


That's the old schoolers for you, and that's really how I felt...
 
EMOYENO said:
couldnt have said it better!!!! no wonder I love dancing Cha-cha with you!!!!!!!!!!
the old schoolers in Puerto Rico have a saying: "If you dont do Cha-cha (they call it Guajira!!) you cant call yourself a dancer!!!" :p
-----------
By the way: Marcus Nieves (On2 Instructor in New Jersey) has been known to teach cha-cha to his Intermediate dancers (which are the really advance classes), because they have demanded it. Also, because he himself has noticed (he said it class) that his students should not be sitting down during cha-cha's. ;-)
- things do change if the dancers demand it!!!
Click to expand...


The only problem is.. that Guajira and Cha are2 different dances.. Guaj. breaks on "1"
 
terence said:
The only problem is.. that Guajira and Cha are2 different dances.. Guaj. breaks on "1"
Click to expand...

yeah... I understand... go tell that to the old schoolers... they really dont care, they call it "whatever" and they dance. Actually they would tell you, "I can dance it, Im a dancer, so I call it whatever!!!.. seen those in action too many times. lol
 
EMOYENO said:
yeah... I understand... go tell that to the old schoolers... they really dont care, they call it "whatever" and they dance. Actually they would tell you, "I can dance it, Im a dancer, so I call it whatever!!!.. seen those in action too many times. lol
Click to expand...
Do they move the break step to match the music, even if they don't care about the label?
 
MMaatttt said:
Do they move the break step to match the music, even if they don't care about the label?
Click to expand...
I would argue that the vast majority of Guajira-Son music I've listened to has contained as much musical justification for dancing on2 as it has for dancing on1. (Which makes sense if Guajira is a sub-category of Son). I really wouldn't want to speak for Emoyeno's old-timers, but I'm guessing that they might not care about such distinctions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top