Where has the Cha-Cha in New York gone?

S

scubasalsera

Changui
While I still lived in DC, I was able to frequent NYC salsa socials often, thanks to Mega and Bolt Bus. I probably made 15 trips in 2012 alone. My most attended events were Jimmy's and the LVG Sunday socials, although I also made a few Yamulee and Frankie Martinez socials. With every trip, I noticed a trend of less and less cha-cha-cha being played at Jimmy's and LVG. Jimmy's plays maybe one Cha-Cha the whole night, and LVG perhaps one per hour. This is extremely disappointing, especially since I rely on New York for my Cha-cha dances these days. With the exception of Frankie Martinez, where is all of the Cha-Cha in New York City? Cha-cha is my favorite dance, it allows for so much expression and playful interpretation. Is it that dancers are intimidated by cha-cha, or just don't like or understand it?
 
Both Jimmy Anton and DJ Antonio La Conga from LVG are on Facebook and are both very nice and friendly, so you could ask them directly and express your desire for more cha-cha (as well as the DJs at the regular DC events--the more cha-cha the better :)).
 
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scubasalsera said:
While I still lived in DC, I was able to frequent NYC salsa socials often, thanks to Mega and Bolt Bus. I probably made 15 trips in 2012 alone. My most attended events were Jimmy's and the LVG Sunday socials, although I also made a few Yamulee and Frankie Martinez socials. With every trip, I noticed a trend of less and less cha-cha-cha being played at Jimmy's and LVG. Jimmy's plays maybe one Cha-Cha the whole night, and LVG perhaps one per hour. This is extremely disappointing, especially since I rely on New York for my Cha-cha dances these days. With the exception of Frankie Martinez, where is all of the Cha-Cha in New York City? Cha-cha is my favorite dance, it allows for so much expression and playful interpretation. Is it that dancers are intimidated by cha-cha, or just don't like or understand it?
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If you think its bad there, don't visit chicago, there is a similar lack of cha love here.Like you, I am a huge cha cha fan. So much in fact, i tweaked my upcoming trip to europe to make fellow SFer Toan's CHA CHA social in london.
 
Sabrosura said:
Wait, but you DJ there :)
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Im not a regular DJ in the salsa scene. But of experienced dancers who go out dancing, I count maybe 15 people who really enjoy cha cha, and most of the time we aren't all out on the same night- usually 4-5 on a given night. Not enough for a DJ to alter how much cha they play, not when you have droves of people dancing bachata.
 
Yeah it's unfortunate that people are scared away from Chachacha. And in Cincinnati a good portion of people do the "1, 2 cha cha cha" so it looks bad when people are watching others dance it. I'm DJ'ing a social in a couple of weeks and I've got 4 on my playlist because I love it. There are some really great songs that people don't get exposed to, so I say "F" it...I'll play several. It'll clear the floor some but there will be a scant few that will appreciate the music.

Plus the event is........FREE. So if they don't like it.....go have a cup of coffee next door :p
 
In my venue usually there are several cha chas per night, so I'm usually disappointed when on congress parties there is maybe 1 song. But even here, number of cha chas played reduced recently and replaced with kizomba :(

It's a kind of expected because there is actually not much classes about cha cha and I don't see actual agreement in salsa world how to dance it. Historically, I think that there is something like mambo-cha cha and there is ballroom version. Salseros mostly don't like ballroom and that version is based on son/danzon, so it works relatively good with followers dancing cuban, but many linear salsa dancers don't dance cuban. On the other side, dancing it NY style is a bit problematic - music is slow so most salsa patterns don't fit well and it mostly turns into dancing it with big number of shines and low amount of dancing in the couple. So many people actually don't know what to do on that music, they don't ask DJs to play cha cha and so it is not played ...
 
Sabrosura said:
I wonder if one reason for the lack of cha cha popularity is as simple as there not being many cha cha classes available.
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Thats a very good point..so.. Im going to advertise one, and see what happens ( I normally have included a basic in my salsa. beg.class )
 
vit said:
On the other side, dancing it NY style is a bit problematic - music is slow so most patterns don't fit well and it mostly turns into dancing it with big number of shines and low amount of dancing in the couple. So many people actually don't know what to do on that music, they don't ask DJs to play cha cha and so it is not played ...
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But most patterns do fit well.. I NEVER use up tempo Guajira/ Cha for dancing or teaching.
As usual, its all about education.
The whole sensuality in Cha, is felt thru the slower tempo style music, of which there is an abundance.
ive been posting on Dance Forums trying to convert the " Pop " style lovers of Cha, to the indigenous side of the genre for teaching and socials ( Comps / Exhib. I dont mind.. ( well, maybe a little ! )
 
terence said:
But most patterns do fit well.
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I mean, in NY style there are usually many multiples spins, copas etc - you surely don't think it fits well to slow cha cha music ??

Can you explain that piece of history that is still not clear to me - was there any connection between a ballroom version (which is non-linear) and mambo-cha cha version (which I suppose was more linear or not ?) or those were developing separately and differently ?
 
vit said:
I mean, in NY style there are usually many multiples spins, copas etc - you surely don't think it fits well to slow cha cha music ??

Can you explain that piece of history that is still not clear to me - was there any connection between a ballroom version (which is non-linear) and mambo-cha cha version (which I suppose was more linear or not ?) or those were developing separately and differently ?
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Multiple spins dont sit well with me in any genre, doubles, fine.

When Cha first came out in the general public 1953, I ( we ), were dancing a format, that was mambo based . It kinda makes sense , looking back, Mambo did incorporate Guajira in some instances, during the course of a song ( Cachaos last DVD shows that happening ).

Fair to say, that mambo was well established before Cha hit the scene, and, like most of the indigenous dances, it went "street " style .

And, BR Cha ( states-side) has many linear variations, but this is American style, NOT Intern.. It also does include , many of the Son variations, tho who borrowed from whom, is never a clear line ,in some cases .
 
vit said:
I mean, in NY style there are usually many multiples spins, copas etc - you surely don't think it fits well to slow cha cha music ??
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Everything can be simplified or you can simply choose not to do the stuff that doesn't translate well to cha :) My cha is very simple and instead of patterns I concentrate on musicality. So I just do different CBL variations, back spot turn variations, a few basket variations, whips and wraps, and that thing where you step and lead the lady from side to side (maybe it's called new yorker or something) that they do in ballroom cha too.

Hearing chacha isn't that common here either, but it's played at every party at least once, twice or trice.
 
Yes, everything can be simplified. I'm also using only a small number of moves - those existing in similar form in cuban, as I'm dancing it mostly with girls familiar with cuban. That opening to the side is called new yorker in int. cha cha or crossover (I think) in american cha cha - I'm trying avoiding that one, reminds to social ballroom too much.

Maybe a number of dancers don't feel quite up to the dance if robbed of big number of patterns they are otherwise using in salsa. Or there is also some other reason why cha cha is not in big demand. Maybe because NY style is smooth, so making those cha cha chasses and lock steps smooth way and without much travelling doesn't go really well with the character of the music where cha-cha-cha is really accented. Or something else .... I don't know, just guessing ....
 
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