Despechada? I love that one. I don’t want salsa, I don’t want reggaeton I want salsa with sabor, something like that.
What would it take for salsa to have a revival?
- Thread starter rheemixed
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DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
My experience in the UK was similar to what Chris has outlined above. Except I was foolhardy to invest a great deal of time and effort in trying to create a scene.
What people don't understand is: if there already exists a 'salsa' scene that only plays timba, timbatón and reggaetón, and there's also an sbk scene, then trying to start a scene featuring real salsa music is a futile endeavour. The market's already saturated, plus real salsa music is considered old-fashioned compared to reggaeton etc.
If it's a massive city and/or there are a lot of S Americans living there then it can be done, but otherwise: no way.
What people don't understand is: if there already exists a 'salsa' scene that only plays timba, timbatón and reggaetón, and there's also an sbk scene, then trying to start a scene featuring real salsa music is a futile endeavour. The market's already saturated, plus real salsa music is considered old-fashioned compared to reggaeton etc.
If it's a massive city and/or there are a lot of S Americans living there then it can be done, but otherwise: no way.
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Jaime_Pipoca
Changui
Yes, that's it! That song should be salsaforums theme song, like straight up battle cry. It's brutal!
Here you are switching theme: the title of this thread is Salsa, for most of us linear, but why on2? What does it matter if some people break on1 dancing next you?
Indeed that's a huge issue in all german speaking countries, if not all northern europe. I know half a dozen dancing schools and all of them have serious problems with the neighbours. One had to shut down because the neighbor sued them and they couldn't afford a lawyer. People go to sleep at 21 or 22 h (!) and want to live in a noise-less city Center.
This is hard to describe to people who come from countries where noise is regarded a natural virtue: think of Spain, where even the 70 years old walk the streets at 3 am on weekends, including the 6 year old kids. Probably most of Latin America is like this.
Generally it doesn’t matter. I’m using On2 as a placeholder for Salsa as that is what I dance the most in the scenes I am in.
But also, in my experience, ’pure Salsa’ events nowadays are being catered to On2 dancers. Salsa marathons (which are the only events I know being marketed as pure Salsa) are also usually filled with On2 dancers.
So it’s easier for me use the term “On2” when talking about pure Salsa events. But that will differ from scene to scene. The difficulties On1 dancers face will be similar.
Didn’t know whether to make a new thread but I think this is relevant to the thread. A teaching talking about how Salsa may be losing numbers because of teachers and classes with crazy combos that are for performance, rather than social dance. I agree that it will put people off and is easily fixed considering most people don’t dance to perform. It will make it accessible like Bachata and Kizomba are, and remove the pressure that one must look like Karel Flores, and that if they don’t, they are bad. This encourages newbies and enhances retention.
I don’t disagree, although it is a simplified take and only one symptom to a larger problem.
There are still many students who enjoy learning combos as long as they are leadable. Some of the most successful teachers are ‘pattern’ oriented.
Then there are people who believe Salsa should strive to be more basic and connection focused.
There is also the camp that thinks educating students about the music is the ’way’. Teach them about Clave, give more attention to musicality, etc..
To sum up, there are lots of different ideas about how to improve teaching in the classroom, but absolutely no consensus.
What do you mean by "is easily fixed"? There are deep reasons (some psychological) why many instructors prefer teaching crazy combos, and they will continue doing this because it's good for them, albeit not good for the scene as a whole. Like in a company people don't act in favor for the company but in favor for themselves. And how would you try to fix it? By a law forbidding crazy combos, "crazy" defined by a comitee who has the right to shut down dance schools who don't obey? Maybe in communist Cuba that could work.
Also, sadly most scenes esp if they’re smaller there’s can be a lot of gatekeeping & resistance from the established teachers & promoters. I’ve heard ugly stories about people who tried to start something on someone else’s ‘turf’. I get the feeling there is a lot of nepotism & cliquey ness you have to deal with.
Also I think geography, esp in the UK & Europe, lots of small & medium cities are only an hour or two away from a bigger city. I think that’s maybe why smaller local scenes in the UK, even in quite reasonable sized cities, can be so bad. It’s just normal, and I think often deeply culturally embedded somehow, that for most things a bit niche you go to a big city.
In the UK the kinda events I love are thriving in London as regular events. Outside London it’s so different.
But who knows, maybe our increasingly crappy and expensive trains will start having an effect and inadvertently spur on better local salsa scenes!
It's interesting that two adjacent countries who have so much in common - Austria and Switzerland - have so different salsa scenes: one near to dead, the other vibrantly living. What could be the reasons?
Switzerland is a high Immigration country with lots of latinos (in the salsa scene, not on the streets where others dominate). Many want to come because it's a rich country offering many possibilities. I can't find statistics, but there are many: all DJs and promoters are latinos. It was said they are often not the best in organizing, but it seems they keep things going and there is a lot of demand. Romeo Santos some weeks ago made 10.000 people visit his concert in Zurich, I suppose most were latinos.
How much latinos are in Austria? Much less I guess. So the key could be you need enough latinos to keep a salsa scene going. Some of them will also like linear salsa and make it thrive.
I hardly see any Latinos in the Crossbody Salsa scene. The Latinos are mostly dancing at Cuban Salsa themed events.
The Salsa community is mostly comprised of ex-pats and some locals. All of the DJs are also non-Latino. Organizers are local Austrians.
It is the same in Slovakia. The Latinos are all in the Cuban dance scene. None of them are involved in Crossbody Salsa and absolutely none are into Salsa/Mambo music.
Mambo lovers are at a serious disadvantage of not being given any exposure. In Slovakia, we not only deal with a lack of organization but there is a hesitancy against anything that the Latinos don't gravitate towards.
There is also this idea that Crossbody Salsa is hard to learn and so very few beginners join classes.
Whenever I visit a Cuban party, I almost never see a high level of dancing as most people around here are dancing mainly for the party atmosphere.
Meanwhile the Bachata scene benefitted from this shifting towards 'I don't want to dance anything hard' and also cornered the market for all young dancers.
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D
Deleted member 324432
Guest
I sincerely doubt that none are into Salsa music. Around here a lot of the Latinos rather go to the Cuban parties because the dancing is far more accessible, but I know quite a few who love to dance to classic salsa tracks when they come on in the more mixed parties.
It’s possible, but I can‘t remember the last time I saw a Latino enter a Crossbody party. If they like the music, then they’re not coming out to dance when there are parties for it.
The mixed parties never play anything I’d consider ‘classic Salsa’. Maybe some Marc Anthony or Luis Enrique (but only “Yo No Se Manana”)
Again, that's different in Switzerland. Latinos are small minority on the dancefloor, but they do dance linear, and they do well. All DJs on linear events are latinos.
I heard in Peru there is a linear scene - I believed in all latin countries they would dance cuban, but apparently not. Anybody knows more?
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I've read on here that Peru has a massive Cuban scene, whilst Quito and maybe other cities in Ecuador have an on 2 scene.
I think there is or was 1 academy in Cali that teaches solely linear salsa. Their style is very theatrical to my eyes and it's on 1, so not my bag, although the followers are pretty versatile and good.
In Mexico I think a lot of schools teach linear salsa. I only danced a few times in a small city and saw quite a few decent followers. There are also some schools (probably a lot) teaching Cuban.
S American style is what the vast majority of people dance in S America. Different countries and cities have their own takes on it. In Central America as well the typical dancer does something similar. In PR the style of the older generations varies from similar to Cuban to linear, whilst PR style today is like NY style but with more sabor.
In Cuba I think Cuban style is very popular.
I think there is or was 1 academy in Cali that teaches solely linear salsa. Their style is very theatrical to my eyes and it's on 1, so not my bag, although the followers are pretty versatile and good.
In Mexico I think a lot of schools teach linear salsa. I only danced a few times in a small city and saw quite a few decent followers. There are also some schools (probably a lot) teaching Cuban.
S American style is what the vast majority of people dance in S America. Different countries and cities have their own takes on it. In Central America as well the typical dancer does something similar. In PR the style of the older generations varies from similar to Cuban to linear, whilst PR style today is like NY style but with more sabor.
In Cuba I think Cuban style is very popular.
Dissonant Harmony
Son Montuno
Endorsing slow music (and dancing).
To the ignorant crowd - salsa can appear overwhelmingly "noisy" and "athletic".
People who just want to connect, or chill - see that, and choose other dances.
To the ignorant crowd - salsa can appear overwhelmingly "noisy" and "athletic".
People who just want to connect, or chill - see that, and choose other dances.
I mean people can easily teach social friendly/easy choreo or people can easily seek out.
You’re being incredibly dramatic about me agreeing that crazy combos might put a beginner off and saying teachers have the ability to change. I’m not forcing anyone to do anything…
I remember dancing with a sightly confused looking latino guy at a supermario social once. I kept seeing him having fun but he & his followers were often struggling a little because he was leading in a more casual cali/circular kinda style.
He wasn’t a bad lead, the followers weren’t bad (probably some of the best linear followers in UK at supermario tbh) but the styles are just very different.
A Venezuelan guy said something similar to me, he finds it hard to lead UK followers bc they’re not used to his style, he’s a good dancer butnever had a lesson in his life. Finds Uk followers quite ‘formal’. Cuban you get taught in the UK is just closer to the circular causal cali kinda style than typical UK linear style so I think thats maybe one reason why.
It’s not the music, bc most latinos I’ve met love the classic salsa.
It’s rare for me to actually meet Latinos since most of them are in the Cuban Salsa community and they are teaching and/or promoting a mix of Timba/Son/Rueda/Cuban Salsa/Afro but all of the events they host locally don’t play any Salsa music.
The more visible Latino figures in our community are Cubans who proudly display their heritage as far as the dancing goes. They never promote any kind of dancing other than Cuban style and the music they dance to is very much from Cuba only.
It’s even rarer to meet people from the other Latin American countries. I’ve also never met anyone from Mexico. I’ve heard they exist here but have never personally run into them at a Crossbody Salsa event.
Our Crossbody Salsa scene is completely dominated by Europeans and the teachers are all Europeans who learned how to dance from Youtube and/or traveling to festivals and learning from other Crossbody dancers such as myself. I’m one of the oldest On2 dancers in the scene so many of the teachers in our scene learned by studying me and the followers learned by dancing with me. I’m not saying this to boast, it’s just a fact.
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DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I think a good linear follower can adjust to indigenous S American styles after dancing with someone a few times. However that will only happen if such leads attend such events regularly.
Re. the popularity of salsa music in L America: in many parts it's a minority taste nowadays, and mostly for the older generations. Even in Colombia, outside of Valle de Cauca and I think the coast, salsa clubs are a small, niche market.