Yogalholic
Changui
I disagree, we can see price of accommodations always skyrocketed during festivals. Dancers have a real impact on economy of the city
What would it take for salsa to have a revival?
- Thread starter rheemixed
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Which is why I assume there was some other reason, besides what's stated in announcement.
Are you making this up? I didn't mention BS at all. Nor what city "thinks".You are trying to equate salsa with BS in the behavior there but the city apparently thinks otherwise
1. You mentioned the public nuisance random parties have been going on since that festival was salsa only.
2. The festival has only canceled the BS week. The salsa week is still on according to announcement.
3. According to announcement if taken at the face value, the primary and only reason for cancellation is #1 above - city didn’t like random parties in the public. It appears that this was ongoing complaint in the past few years by the city to the organizers.
Ergo!
P.S. - My original comment was a joke. The logic does support it if you want to take it seriously.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
A lot of that "legendary and oft-recounted golden days of yore" talk is also a lot of bunk. I can ONLY speak for NYC where not only were there socials that strictly had a DJ playing Mambos, Guarachas & Son Montunos (classic "Salsa") they were unwittingly On2-only events. This was not the norm in NYC. The socials were a small minority who immersed themselves in the Eddie Torres technique. Regardless of who their instructor was. A majority in the Tri-state area directly or indirectly learned the Eddie Torres method. I attended socials at Side Street, Ballroom on Fifth and, for me, they were lame. Everything from the music selection to people repeatedly doing the exact same assortment of cross body leads and partner work. Today in NYC these cats are now the face of "Salsa," in NYC. Because there's nothing else happening 'locally' of any grand magnitude that fuels an alternative dance scene from the On2'ers. Maybe in the UK it was hot ****, but what DJ Yuca described was exactly my sentiment in the 90s-early 00's. They all played the same music by the same artists. And if they couldn't deploy their Mambo On 2 technique to a song then they'd dismiss the music as being "undanceable." Real elitist ****, you know?
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
So bottomline is: salsa survived and all others have been banned.
Not exactly a revival but survival is better than banned, right?
Or could it be that the regular people in Croatia really do hate kizomba music and hearing it at 4am when they are trying to sleep is very annoying?
Jorge Pescado
Changui
From facebook comments:
If that doesn't prove God exists, I don't know what will.
Summer Rain
Changui
Salsa, like many other dance styles, is on a natural evolution path. Everything is constantly changing. Personally, I enjoy exploring different dance styles too.
What's essential, though, is to maintain respect for salsa dancers of all levels, ages, and abilities. We should always encourage others to give it a try. By fostering a welcoming and respectful community, we can create a positive and inclusive dance environment. People always want to come back if they feel good.
opm1s6
Son
and it's better then the next 10 bachata songs put together
opm1s6
Son
You're spot on.
Bachata has definitely taken over in my scene but i have to take some of the blame for that. Myself and some of the other teachers and promoters are trying to change things but its hard.
Salsa instructors were slow to get back to normalcy post COVID. But i'll say the new generation of dance teachers know next to nothing. They know nothing about business, online marketing or technique. They are quite good at social media though. That does not equate to beginners in the door. If you want to win the war, then you need you start with the beginners.
Having visited three different SBK events the last weeks in my middle europe area, which happen to be organized every 6-12 months since many years and have separate rooms for each dance, I start seeing things more positively: Salsa everywhere still gets the biggest room, and it is crowded.
There was a decline in the last decade, and covid time seemed to be the final deadly shock. But linear salsa is still alive out of the ashes here.
I normally avoid SBK events as I'm happy to have enough Salsa-only or Salsa/Bachata partys here around. So part of my interest was if Bachata takes over the biggest room, which was to fear after the last years of decline. But it happened nowhere. Bachata room was everywhere crowded but nowhere took over the biggest room. Kizomba has gotten weak here, it everywhere had the smallest room and nowhere was full.
I guess the sensual wave is on its peak in europe and will slowly decline - simply because this fashion has already more than 10 years now. While this seems to be a weak reason, it is of essential importance in western culture where fashion waves come and go. Sensual is no more the interesting new kid on the block, everybody has tried it out already. I remember back in 2012 when Kizomba suddenly appeared in my scene - there was a "new" dance, that was appealing to us and we all wanted to learn it. Later many lost interest in it.
Also most linear salsa dancers are astonishingly "young" - this is a relative term and there are no statistics, so let me say it this way: at Back2Mambo in Prague I hardly saw any grey hairs. The youngsters who started salsa ten years back, in the heyday of salsa when they were university students in their beginning 20s, are now in their beginning 30s - that's still young, they have decades of dancing ahead and they don't want to give up what they prefer.
Local scenes are often weak, yes. At Back2Mambo festival I asked several followers how their salsa scene is back home, and they all responded dancing level wasn't good there, they hardly go out there. But that's not different in sensual dances. I know only one once-a-month event here around where dancing level is high on the bachata floor, for all the other venues level is poor for bachata, poorer than for salsa.
So I look now rather optimistically into the next 5-10 years: latinos will keep on producing some good new salsa music, and european youngsters will keep on dancing to it.
There was a decline in the last decade, and covid time seemed to be the final deadly shock. But linear salsa is still alive out of the ashes here.
I normally avoid SBK events as I'm happy to have enough Salsa-only or Salsa/Bachata partys here around. So part of my interest was if Bachata takes over the biggest room, which was to fear after the last years of decline. But it happened nowhere. Bachata room was everywhere crowded but nowhere took over the biggest room. Kizomba has gotten weak here, it everywhere had the smallest room and nowhere was full.
I guess the sensual wave is on its peak in europe and will slowly decline - simply because this fashion has already more than 10 years now. While this seems to be a weak reason, it is of essential importance in western culture where fashion waves come and go. Sensual is no more the interesting new kid on the block, everybody has tried it out already. I remember back in 2012 when Kizomba suddenly appeared in my scene - there was a "new" dance, that was appealing to us and we all wanted to learn it. Later many lost interest in it.
Also most linear salsa dancers are astonishingly "young" - this is a relative term and there are no statistics, so let me say it this way: at Back2Mambo in Prague I hardly saw any grey hairs. The youngsters who started salsa ten years back, in the heyday of salsa when they were university students in their beginning 20s, are now in their beginning 30s - that's still young, they have decades of dancing ahead and they don't want to give up what they prefer.
Local scenes are often weak, yes. At Back2Mambo festival I asked several followers how their salsa scene is back home, and they all responded dancing level wasn't good there, they hardly go out there. But that's not different in sensual dances. I know only one once-a-month event here around where dancing level is high on the bachata floor, for all the other venues level is poor for bachata, poorer than for salsa.
So I look now rather optimistically into the next 5-10 years: latinos will keep on producing some good new salsa music, and european youngsters will keep on dancing to it.
Jaime_Pipoca
Changui
That's been the conclusion from my end too and follows say the same thing.
It’s a very optimistic take. I hope you’re right.
My country is a bit backwards when it comes to trends. I have a feeling our heads and arses will still be buried deep beneath the proverbial Bachata/Kizomba sand dunes for years to come since we are mostly a) into party atmosphere b) mixing drinking and dancing c) mostly a younger crowd.
Since Salsa music was never a thing here (only Timba and reggaeton was somewhat popular…and now remixed trash), it would take a lot to get something going, but I think no one is going to be wliling to play this music for the crowds, which means the dancing will stay mediocre.
My country is a bit backwards when it comes to trends. I have a feeling our heads and arses will still be buried deep beneath the proverbial Bachata/Kizomba sand dunes for years to come since we are mostly a) into party atmosphere b) mixing drinking and dancing c) mostly a younger crowd.
Since Salsa music was never a thing here (only Timba and reggaeton was somewhat popular…and now remixed trash), it would take a lot to get something going, but I think no one is going to be wliling to play this music for the crowds, which means the dancing will stay mediocre.
I haven’t taken a poll, but to me it would seem reasonable that the only people saying this are the ones who travel to go to festivals. These are people who are probably very good dancers and/or have become disillusioned with their local scene.
Locally, if I were to ask people whether they enjoy what they are hearing/dancing during one of our parties, my feeling would be that the overwhelming percentage of locals would say yes since their reasons for dancing probably have very little to do with the music or dance level.
I also know people who prefer dancing Salsa but found more opportunities dancing at mixed parties and are no longer attending pure Salsa events. This is really sad but it’s either that or not go out.
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A revival starts with good Salsa ambassadors.
When Svetlana Ray was in my hometown for 11 days this month, she organized lessons and workshops for the locals. We even managed to convince one guy who was about to take lessons with one of our local established Latin dance schools that is known for producing trash social dancers and whose only purpose is to propagate the old ways… to instead take a workshop with her and now he’s hooked with Salsa dancing, Salsa music and Salsa musicality.
So yes, we need ambassadors who will take on the responsibility of introducing the music, the dancing and the musicality to the locals.
When Svetlana Ray was in my hometown for 11 days this month, she organized lessons and workshops for the locals. We even managed to convince one guy who was about to take lessons with one of our local established Latin dance schools that is known for producing trash social dancers and whose only purpose is to propagate the old ways… to instead take a workshop with her and now he’s hooked with Salsa dancing, Salsa music and Salsa musicality.
So yes, we need ambassadors who will take on the responsibility of introducing the music, the dancing and the musicality to the locals.
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
Migration seems to be a big factor.
Prior to moving to south Florida (Miami-Ft Lauderdale-West Palm Beach metro), I had lived in the Chicago and Minneapolis metro. In those metros, the in-migration of salseros was minimal. Some people grew up with salsa but most people learned to dance salsa with local instructors. Some instructors were excellent, some were ok, others not so much.
The southeast Florida metro is different. There is a LOT of in-migration from abroad (Cuba, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru etc) and from within the US, especially a lot of New Yorkers. There are salsa events that cater to each of the constituencies and there are others that are mixed. Meaning:
- If someone wanted to dance only salsa caleña, there would be several nights per week to do that.
- If someone wanted to dance only on2, there would be socials every other week where a significant number of on2 dancers show up.
- If someone wanted to dance only Cuban, there are weekly events that offer that.
- If someone wanted to mix it up and have salsa and bachata and not pay a cover and get free water, there is at least one event like that.
That’s case with big metro areas in USA. You have multiple options each day. You go to the event that is your type and skip the rest. The American suburbia means driving distances are long. Other than NYC, I think most metros here have the same issue with distances. Some people are willing to drive 1 hour to 1.5 hours. Others will stick to 30 minutes radius. In LA which is an expansive city you are stuck in traffic for 30 minutes driving a distance of 5 miles. We have people attend events in the bay area that drive from Sacramento. Two hours drive! We also have people drive from Monterey Bay, that will be at least hour and half.
Europe has excellent public transport. My door to the event venue travel home tends to be the same. In Paris or Moscow or Berlin it took almost 35-40 minutes by metro minimum. Walk to station - five to ten minutes. Wait for metro or bus. Walk to the venue another ten minutes typically. An hour is easily lost traveling using public transport within the city.
USA with its proximity to Latin America and the metros that have a rich cultural links with Latin heritage and population is in completely universe of experience. The accessibility to Latin culture, is something that rest of the non-Latin world like EU, Asia, or Africa can’t match.
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
In some ways Miami metro almost as far north as Ft Lauderdale is as much Spanish as English speaking.
It happens a lot that I will start speaking to someone, realize their English is not so good and then I switch to Spanish. These situations have not occurred in the salsa dance scene. Its more like a general occurrence.
I guess the same can be said of Texas and California. You hear Spanish everywhere in California. Almost everyone speaks or understands it as a second or third language. In tango and salsa scene I am an odd one out that doesn’t speak Spanish.