What is the Eddie Torres technique?

DJ Yuca said:
Out of interest: what music do you like?
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  • 60's & 70's Salsa (aka: Guaracha & Son Montuno with a facelift ;)) a lot of old Mambo (Tito Puente, Arsenio, Curbelo, Tito Rodriguez, Machito, etc. - some Peres Prado to listen to as well, but not to dance it).
  • Starting to like Boogaloo
  • Cuban Son and it's derivatives
  • Afro-Cuban music (such as Muñequitos de Matanzas)

Dislike:
  • Salsa Romantica (some songs are ok, but as a genre is too pop)
  • Don't mind a lot of Colombian salsa
  • Strongly dislike Timba (yeah, I'm Cuban and can at best tolerate very few songs)
 
SmallSteps3000 said:
Still though... for anyone with experience with this... how did you learn how to tap into bringing out more and more expression into your dancing?
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I can't say that I am the most expressive dancer on the floor at any given time, but here are a few things that helped a bit in my case:

(1) I listen to a lot of salsa so I can hit breaks or just so what I am doing coincides with the flow and feel of the song.
(2) I developed a 5 to 10 shine repertoire that I am very comfortable with and that I can execute during breaks or peaks in the music. Simple stuff like Suzy Q, Hunt's point, Front double cross, Slave step, the Cuban, etc. None of them by themselves are anything special, but if you can piece them together into different variations then it can look pretty sharp. Really, you almost can't run out of variations if you can mix them all up. I don't mean just learn them; I mean execute them with a lot of contrabody movement, vary execution speed from slow to fast and vice versa, and in summary work hard on making those simple shines look amazing.
(3) Work on performing the fundamentals perfectly. Practice your basic step and make sure it looks excellent. Learn three or four ways to embellish your cross body lead.

Remember it is about quality not quantity. A focus on quality also builds a good foundation and will serve you well when you progress to the next level in salsa dancing.
 
Myst said:
I know you visit Cuban often. But I was born and raised there, I left at 18, and lived in Habana, not some isolated rural town. My family is still there, so I know what's going on.

Unless we are using the word "mainstream" in different ways, Rumba is not mainstream in the sense of Regueton or pop music are - meaning that regular folk listen and dance to it daily.

Now, if by mainstream you mean that it is danced in "Solares" once in a while, and in tourist spots, and may be even in "Toques de Santos". Then in that sense, sure. But that to me is not exactly mainstream.

One more thing, being able to throw some Rumba steps as many Cubans can do more or less is not the same as dancing Folkloric Rumba - like Muñequitos de Matanzas have been trained to do in the ENA (Escuela Nacional de Arte)
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I think our disagreement is simply a matter of degree; I don't doubt your knowledge as someone who grew up in Cuba! Of course rumba is not nearly as popular as Regueton or pop -- or even salsa, although salsa isn't that popular these days anymore (and certainly rumba isn't great listening music, absent dance).

I do think rumba deserves to be considered mainstream, though, in that most Cubans have at least basic familiarity with what rumba is -- they'll know the Munequitos de Matanzas if no one else, and they'll have seen quite a lot of rumba danced, even if it's not their cup of tea. And wide swathes of society dance enough rumba to convey what dancers call the 'intencion' of the dance, if not necessarily technique.

I'm sure this does depend on location. One of my best friends grew up in San Luis, a small town outside Santiago -- far from a tourist spot -- and danced a lot of rumba growing up. Another friend is from Marianao and grew up playing the music, though not dancing. Some friends in Centro Habana danced plenty. I suspect that growing up in, say, Vedado would be very different, though. Another white friend from the touristy part of Trinidad sure doesn't know any rumba. . . it varies.

Of course, you are also right that rumba on the street is usually a far, far cry from the rumba danced by the pros -- but then, the average Cuban's casino is also pretty weak. That doesn't mean that the rumba (or casino) danced in the street isn't valid for some reason (in fact, sometimes I tend to think it is more 'valid' than the sophisticated beautiful pro rumba).

Contrast that with dances like pilon, mozambique, danzon. Correct me if I'm wrong -- my impression is that most people will have heard of these, but the level of knowledge among the general public is much lower than for rumba. Even son today I'm not sure I would call mainstream -- the music yes, but the dance seems to have lost its popular appeal.

But again, I think we are simply arguing over definitions. Naturally, after 18 years in Cuba you know more about the situation on the ground.
 
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TSC said:
I think our disagreement is simply a matter of degree; I don't doubt your knowledge as someone who grew up in Cuba! Of course rumba is not nearly as popular as Regueton or pop -- or even salsa, although salsa isn't that popular these days anymore (and certainly it's not great listening music, absent dance). I do think it deserves to be considered mainstream, though, in that most Cubans have at least basic familiarity with what rumba is -- they'll know the Munequitos de Matanzas if no one else, and they'll have seen quite a lot of rumba danced, even if it's not their cup of tea. And wide swathes of society dance enough rumba to convey what dancers call the 'intencion' of the dance, if not necessarily technique.

I'm sure this does depend on location. One of my best friends grew up in San Luis, a small town outside Santiago -- far from a tourist spot -- and danced a lot of rumba growing up. Another friend is from Marianao and grew up playing the music, though not dancing. Some friends in Centro Habana danced plenty. I suspect that growing up in, say, Vedado would be very different, though.

Of course, you are also right that rumba on the street is usually a far, far cry from the rumba danced by the pros -- but then, the average Cuban's casino is also pretty weak. That doesn't mean that the rumba (or casino) danced in the street isn't valid for some reason (in fact, sometimes I tend to think it is more 'valid' than the sophisticated beautiful pro rumba).

Contrast that with dances like pilon, mozambique, danzon. Correct me if I'm wrong -- my impression is that most people will have heard of these, but the level of knowledge among the general public is much lower than for rumba. Even son today I'm not sure I would call mainstream -- the music yes, but the dance seems to have lost its popular appeal.

But again, I think we are simply arguing over definitions. Naturally, after 18 years in Cuba you know more about the situation on the ground.
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I think now that you gave more concrete context, I agree on all counts. You definitely come across as a lover of my culture - and that makes me a bit proud :) Thanks.
 
Myst said:
I think now that you gave more concrete context, I agree on all counts. You definitely come across as a lover of my culture - and that makes me a bit proud :) Thanks.
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Heh I sure do love a lot of it. And I'm shocked -- shocked, I say! -- that you dislike timba.
 
TSC said:
Heh I sure do love a lot of it. And I'm shocked -- shocked, I say! -- that you dislike timba.
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It's more than that! Timba took off in the early 90's with NG la Band, El Medico de la Salsa, etc (Van Van had been around for a while, but they have a unique flavor) while I was in Cuba.

At the time I was into House Music, and couldn't stand Timba mostly because of the lyrics, which tended to have double-meaning and reflect the values of:
  • Guaperia: "No te tires Conmigo que yo como Candela..."
  • Jineterismo: "Yo quiero un Temba que me Mantenga..."
  • Or just plain non-sensical: "Cocodrilo de Agua Sala..."

It was so prevalent at the time that I disliked it even more, and fact it drained any interest I could have had in Cuban music making me lump it all together. (that is not to say I was ignorant of older genres such as the music of Benny More, La Orquesta Aragon, just that Timba poisoned the well for me, and the friends I hanged out with).

Now thanks to NYon2, I have discovered a taste for "Salsa Dura" and through that rediscovered a love for my roots: Cuban music that preceded Timba, and even contemporary music that runs parallel to Timba without being such, like Afro Cuban All Stars:


Timba is still not to my liking.
 
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Those are valid criticisms of a fair amount of timba, sure. ;) perhaps one day you might revisit the genre, though. There is also a lot of beauty, among songs old and new!



 
My recipe for timba has always been to dance normally but to 'afro-cubanize' my movements :D Think Jimmy Yoon, just not nearly as good. (@4:15)


Optimally I'd dance casino to timba, but I don't know any casino, so I have to improvise.
 
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SmallSteps3000 said:
Just curious. How do you ''dance'' to Timba?
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Essentially you dance Casino (aka Cuban salsa) and if you know how, add in some Rumba, Cuban Mambo, Son, Afrocuban or Reggaeton elements to reflect the varying rhythms of the music depending on the track and what you know.

e.g.






Some people even dance cross-body style to it.
 
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Anyway, aren't we getting a bit far off-topic of Eddie Torres technique? Which I thought was an interesting topic.
 
Myst said:
At the time I was into House Music
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How do Cubans dance to House Music if you don't mind me asking?

I have a Cuban friend of mine and I saw him dancing to House music and his was the most beautiful, flavorful dancing I've ever seen. I tried to ask him more questions about if there was a larger community, but he didn't speak English and I can't speak Spanish (yet).

Louie Vega and Frankie Feliciano are two of my favorites as they put aLOT of Afro-Latin rhythms into their music but I have yet to meet any Cubans down here that dance like that other than the above.
 
I meant to respond to this earlier. Sorry

Myst said:
All those who claim that Eddie Torres is overrated are 100% correct, since the man has been wrongly accused of being a dancer/teacher, he instead is a notorious gardener...
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By "gardener" is that positive as in watering his would be "plants" (students) and watching them grow? Or is that negative as in picking and choosing the best from his "produce" and putting them on display, as his own?

I have a feeling you are right... since the only videos I've seen of him teaching have zero body movement. It's all disconnected footwork, it seems.

But then, we have to ask ourselves.

If Eddie was both Frankie and Franklin's first teacher.... then how the hell did they come to know more about incorporating more body movement into their movements than their original 'sensei' did?

Since when do the students become more advanced than the original teacher?
Maybe he did teach them all these things but keeps these secrets away from the general public in order to make his "team" look good?
Here's a video of them dancing long ago. Franklin and Frankie look like they have a great deal of good motion, even back then.

Maybe there's more to Eddie than we think?:
 
In the first video I think that's Frankie to the rightmost and Franklin in the middle with the black vests and black hats on? Can someone confirm?
 
TSC said:
Lately this has been my favorite example:

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Yeah, I like Yoandy's dancing. Have seen that video before. I've thought about practicing that swing trick at 1:49s but most girls I know will either let go or not do their swing part so you get stuck. :p

I'm a bit out of practice on all the back-bridge tricks I used to do, have to start doing them again.
 
premier said:
Optimally I'd dance casino to timba, but I don't know any casino, so I have to improvise.
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You could learn the basics. It's not that difficult if you already have a good command of linea style. Essentially you just need the Cuban basic step, Dile Que No, Hecho (Right turn), Enchufe (left turn) and hook turn to get started. Maybe Setenta as well, which is pretty much hammerlock + enchufe/left-turn.
 
azzey said:
Yeah, I like Yoandy's dancing. Have seen that video before. I've thought about practicing that swing trick at 1:49s but most girls I know will either let go or not do their swing part so you get stuck. :p

I'm a bit out of practice on all the back-bridge tricks I used to do, have to start doing them again.
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tricks are pretty much not intuitive and have to be taught. I personally don't like tricks, dip or lifts and neck drops cause me to figuratively vomit after seeing them ad nauseum.

What's interesting if you analyse what they did is that they dance casino during the gears and rumba during the verses. Kind of counter intuitive as well. She has an interesting personal style. they are obviously great dancers, but i'd do it differently if I were leading :)
 
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