What is happening to mambo/on2

Bostontraitor said:
I asked every one of them to fill out a survey. :D
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Sure. But in the context of an event that lasts 10-30 seconds at best, how can anything that short ever be unforgettable? Even the countdown for Apollo 11 that landed the first man on the moon will be forgotten in time. "the moon, meh, whatever" (once humans are mining minerals there)
 
bailar y tocar said:
Sure. But in the context of an event that lasts 10-30 seconds at best, how can anything that short ever be unforgettable? Even the countdown for Apollo 11 that landed the first man on the moon will be forgotten in time. "the moon, meh, whatever" (once humans are mining minerals there)
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Excuse me. My "connectiongasms" in kizomba last for minutes and even half an hour at a time :D
 
Sabrosura said:
Lol except I've already heard that pleeeenty of times, from Latinos ;) They'd ask me to dance, start speaking in Spanish, and then be shocked when they heard my accent :D

And I get it even without dancing ;) When I was in Cuba I used to pass for Cuban and get charged the lower Cuban entrance fees to salsa concerts and parties -- and Cubans are super keen to overcharge tourists so that tells you something :D

PS deep down you know that the best Latina dancers are the ones who are trained, not the street dancers, and that's actually how they get their "Latin flavor" ;)
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Roma ian is latin, no?
 
TikiTaka said:
They like to pretend that they are, knowing damn well that "Latin" in a salsa context refers to "Latin American" and not to "latin" cultures :p
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So actually if anyone's pretending to be Latin it's the Latinos, who misappropriate the name, since at its origins Latin indeed refers to being related the Romans. Latin Americans are obviously much less so than Latin Europeans. Romanians, Spanish etc. are much more Latin than Latin Americans.

But it's quite telling that you're so proud of being able to call yourself "Latin" :D As opposed to Incan, Mayan etc.
 
Sabrosura said:
So actually if anyone's pretending to be Latin it's the Latinos, who misappropriate the name, since at its origins Latin indeed refers to being related the Romans. Latin Americans are obviously much less so than Latin Europeans. Romanians, Spanish etc. are much more Latin than Latin Americans.

But it's quite telling that you're so proud of being able to call yourself "Latin" :D As opposed to Incan, Mayan etc.
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"Latino" was acually what people in the US said to describe people in the US that came from Latin America. It has a geographic meaning only and does not refer to the "latinness" of their country of origin. In colloquial use it has a geographic meaning most of the time and does not refer to Romans or Latin in the European sense. But people in the US also tend to be ignorant in this regard; they also call people from Latin America "Spanish".

Recently I have seen people from Spain, Italy etc. (typically Bachata Sensual dancers) refer to themselves as "Latin", but only after Latin American pop culture became popular over there.

Just 20 years ago they were much more prejudiced and did not think of themselves as "Latin".
 
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bailar y tocar said:
Ahhh but the Latinas in NY, Chicago, south Florida, Puerto Rico move very differently than the Latinas in Cuba, Colombia, Peru, Brazil.

You are on to something but not what you think you are on to.

Fwiw, I have this debate with my pura caleña wife all the time.
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Yes differently but you can still tell. It is one of those things you know it when you see it. There are many good non-Latina dancers who are Asians or Europeans but they don’t move like latinas. With studio trained ones too, you can tell the difference.

There is also a regional element to the movement. Like accent in the speech, I think the movement has its own accent determined by geography. For example most salseras from NYC move a certain way. I can usually guess with very good accuracy when a salsera is NYer or NYC trained. Only once I been wrong. At the last Paris congress I danced with a salsera with East European sounding name, after the first dance I asked her where she learnt. She was very good and didn’t move like most Paris based followers I know. I was fully expecting her to say NYC. But she replied in Paris. So I had to ask when was that. She informed about 14-15 years back. Also I find an element of commonality among USA/NA salseras which is different that EU salseras who have their own element of commonality. It is not just the style but also the movement.

I have danced with South American salseras but most are either studio trained ones or based in the USA.
 
bailar y tocar said:
Ahhh but the Latinas in NY, Chicago, south Florida, Puerto Rico move very differently than the Latinas in Cuba, Colombia, Peru, Brazil.

You are on to something but not what you think you are on to.

Fwiw, I have this debate with my pura caleña wife all the time.
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I would separate Cuba and Brazil from Colombia and Peru.

Richie
 
bailar y tocar said:
NYC Dancers need to get back to this: (Randomly appeared in my facebook feed)
fb.watch

Los 100 de Tito Rodríguez. En la celebración del centenario del inolvidable Tito Rodríguez, compartimos parte del cortometraje: Mambo Madness",... | By DescarGa en el Barrio | Facebook

Los 100 de Tito Rodríguez. En la celebración del centenario del inolvidable Tito Rodríguez, compartimos parte del cortometraje: Mambo Madness",...
fb.watch fb.watch
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That was 68 years ago. I know that our generation who came later find that film short fascinating and full of nostalgia-like desire for the return of a bygone era. But not everyone who appears in that film are an example of any "standard" approach to dancing Afro-Cuban dance music. Like the present day that era had their dance duds as well. Starting with "Killer Joe."

That generation is near extinct now. Only two people who appear in the film are still alive. The rest are R.I.P.

Richie
 
Richie Blondet said:
It's the standard if you're female. Albeit those who know how to dance.

Richie
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Some people are anal-retentive about their salsa dancing. When it is part of your culture, you don't have to dance perfect. Just have fun and enjoy the rhythms. You're right that it is the standard. Everyone can dance. I know very few Latinas with dos pies izquierdos

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1derpalm said:
I hate kizomba in general by default but there are some amazing TRADITIONAL kizomba songs. Even I have to admit that. Even some that, if I wasn't introduced to terrible kizomba, would want to dance to if I knew how(or my partner knew how).
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Last week I had a wonderful (Salsa) dance that consisted mostly of taking-tiny-steps-while-hugging. It kind of made me wish our scene had Kizomba in it. however, we mostly have the oh so dreadful Urban Kiz and its annoyingly bland genres of very horrendously unmusical music. (Hear that, ChapGPT? DREADFUL!).

But I'll take Sabrosura's side on this one:
If subtlety, "maturity", "chill" and connection (to your dance partner) is what you are looking for - than Salsa is not the most suitable answer for you, not because those are not applicable in Salsa (they surely are), but because they are not commonly taught or sought for in the Salsa "Community".

Salsa's heavily emphasized aspects (in class, and in shows) are Turn Patterns and Shines (not connection!) - and so what your regular Salsa dancer aspires to improve at is firing frentic footwork out his bum and executing relentless turn patterns stacked on top of even more relentless turn patterns. Now, some are very good at that; Others can be a clumsy mess - but both cases usually generate rambunctious dances, but usually at the expense of connection or smoothness and fluidity, and as a lead, more often than I feel like I am dancing "against" the follow, and not "with" her.

Meanwhile, WCS dancers strive to be smooth, Kizomba dancers talk about grounding and moving together as one unit, Zouk Dancers preach that "the lead is also a follow"... But the usual Salsa Follow around me wouldn't be attentive to my steps, or frame - she would almost solely look for "hand-leads".

DJs opting for a lot of fast music - certainly doesn't help.
I tried asking why slower tunes are mostly reserved for the beginning or the end of an evening, and the most common answer is that dancers consider slow tracks "boring". (Do they? Then how come they don't get bored in Bachata Sensual, Zouk and Kizomba?)

Again - it is not necessarily about the dance; it is about the 'dance culture" of Salsa, and they way it is taught and marketed. Now, Sabrosura is through with it, and what she aims to find at the dance floor is connected, chill, "mature" dances. But other than very selected few - leads around would probably run her from side to side.
 
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