What is happening to mambo/on2

Sabrosura said:
In the meantime while you've been gone I got tired of salsa pattern monkeys and moved to Paris and switched over to kizomba :D
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There are female dancers much better than you who enjoy/love salsa, even with a mediocre leader they can make their own dance. It's about a connection with the music. If you don't get that the reasons are either, you don't really get the music, you regularly end up with bad leaders (I wonder why?), or you're just not creative on your own. Maybe all of the above.

Re kizomba, that music doesn't move me at all, just like the sensual bachata, and watching people grinding to it is embarrassing. Which brings the question wtf are you doing in this forum? Are you trying to make people like something they don't like, and stop doing what they do like with your stupid assertions? Ignoring you is probably best course of action, but thought I'd call you out at least once. Change your name to demalgusto because sabrosura you ain't.
 
songname said:
There are female dancers much better than you who enjoy/love salsa, even with a mediocre leader they can make their own dance. It's about a connection with the music. If you don't get that the reasons are either, you don't really get the music, you regularly end up with bad leaders (I wonder why?), or you're just not creative on your own. Maybe all of the above.

Re kizomba, that music doesn't move me at all, just like the sensual bachata, and watching people grinding to it is embarrassing. Which brings the question wtf are you doing in this forum? Are you trying to make people like something they don't like, and stop doing what they do like with your stupid assertions? Ignoring you is probably best course of action, but thought I'd call you out at least once. Change your name to demalgusto because sabrosura you ain't.
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Damn, I'm not taking sides. But that was str8 to the point, lol
 
songname said:
There are female dancers much better than you who enjoy/love salsa, even with a mediocre leader they can make their own dance. It's about a connection with the music. If you don't get that the reasons are either, you don't really get the music, you regularly end up with bad leaders (I wonder why?), or you're just not creative on your own. Maybe all of the above.

Re kizomba, that music doesn't move me at all, just like the sensual bachata, and watching people grinding to it is embarrassing. Which brings the question wtf are you doing in this forum? Are you trying to make people like something they don't like, and stop doing what they do like with your stupid assertions? Ignoring you is probably best course of action, but thought I'd call you out at least once. Change your name to demalgusto because sabrosura you ain't.
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I hate kizomba in general by default but there are some amazing TRADITIONAL kizomba songs. Even I have to admit that. Even some that, if I wasn't introduced to terrible kizomba, would want to dance to if I knew how(or my partner knew how).
 
That's probably a good thing for Australia because here we are seeing a Mambo/On2 revival. Many dedicated hard-core instructors in Melbourne and Sydney who have learn't from the world's best in their travels and sharing their knowledge with a resurgence of determined Mambo/On2 students.

It might mean in the long term the tables will turn and Australia will become the new place to be for Mambo/On2.....

Either way, I'm glad it's having a revival here :-)
 
One thing that's hard to deny is the mambo in Europe has exploded in recent years and many of the very best dancers on the planet now live and dance there. We also have China and Korea and Singapore with their own explosions in their mambo scenes and respective incredible rising star dancers.
 
Looks like I hit a nerve :)

@Sabrosura this made me reflect on why I love salsa. I started salsa to be social, in other words meet women and exert my mastery on them. I was humbled, in other words beginners hell. But I didn't quit, because I couldn't allow myself to be humbled for life (and because I knew I'm talented :)). Somewhere along the way (about year 6 in :facepalm:) the music took on another dimension, and I started to have moments where I was dancing freely, what I call "being in the music". So it's like when I'm in tune with the instruments (not counting and can break rhythm and come back at will) and I can feel in my body when the next thing is coming, like an accent or dramatic pause, and even if I haven't heard the song before I hit it just right, with my own movement or moving the follow. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's happening more and more often, and I know now that the possibilities and room for growth are inexhaustible. I'm not sure if my stuff looks good, but it feels great when I know everything comes together, like being in the right position at the right time, and the spine/axis feels light and aligned during spins and turns, so it's hard to imagine it looks bad, whatever. There's also the I don't care so much anymore about what other people think when sh1t is coming together nicely. Then there's authentic appreciation and accolades from the follows that enjoy my vibe, and on the flip side general weirdness from the follows who know nothing except patterns (who I don't care to cater to). It's all I wanted really, to dance freely, because I knew that's when cool new things happen. I can't learn patterns they just don't stick.

Now you tell me what it is about kizomba you love that is more pleasurable and intense than what I get out of salsa. Just don't say it's the kizomba music because I don't think anyone here will believe it, it's just so repetitive. I honestly want to know what you think is great about kizomba. I mean I will never get past the ridiculousness of how it looks in general. But maybe it has some nice elements from tango that you feel. But then why not just do Tango, it's respectable and beautiful done right. But in the end you are where you are because of who you really are. Just like to be held/coddled I suppose? That's something you're supposed to get from a life partner not random strangers.

Final thought, the amount of work and dedication it takes to become good at salsa, never mind at the professional level, when you say the stupid sh1t you do, it rubs people the wrong way, so you shouldn't expect anyone to sympathize. If you're looking for a kizomba soul mate aren't there kizomba forums?
 
TikiTaka said:
But deep inside you wish your dancing and your arm movement would have more latin flavor :p
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Latin flavor is a myth lol. I've been to Cali, capital of salsa, and untrained men/women can't dance even basic stuff, much less have "flavor". Arm movement? Forget it lol

I dance for the pleasure of moving to music and above all for the partner connection, not for how it looks to anybody. And I can tell you I have never received any complaints in the connection department ;) Just last night my two favorite leads of the night were gushing afterwards about how good the connection with me was :)

It's so sad that salsa dancers care so much about how they look rather than about connection. No wonder guys like @songname can't understand why good salsa follows are leaving and switching to dances with real connection.
 
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It's precisely what I love about salsa, my first allegiance is connection to the music, 2nd is connection to partner. I'm not there only to provide a framework for the follow, sometimes I want to disengage and do my own thing. Kizomba looks too much like it caters to the follow, guys who engage in it are all about getting in the girl's pants (figuratively speaking). Yes Salsa/Latin dance has a macho element, and the follow tolerates this and waits, or not. And if she's good she'll take the opportunity to do her own thing too. Probably that's what you're missing.
 
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Sabrosura said:
Latin flavor is a myth lol. I've been to Cali, capital of salsa, and untrained men/women can't dance even basic stuff, much less have "flavor". Arm movement? Forget it lol

I dance for the pleasure of moving to music and above all for the partner connection, not for how it looks to anybody. And I can tell you I have never received any complaints in the connection department ;) Just last night my two favorite leads of the night were gushing afterwards about how good the connection with me was :)
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Deep down you know the biggest compliment to you is if somebody would say you move naturally like a Latina. Keep telling yourself otherwise :p
 
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TikiTaka said:
Deep down you know the biggest compliment to you is if somebody would say you move naturally like a Latina. Keep telling yourself otherwise :p
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Ahhh but the Latinas in NY, Chicago, south Florida, Puerto Rico move very differently than the Latinas in Cuba, Colombia, Peru, Brazil.

You are on to something but not what you think you are on to.

Fwiw, I have this debate with my pura caleña wife all the time.
 
Sabrosura said:
Thank you so much! Especially coming from a great musician like you who has been immersed in the NY salsa scene for decades, your words mean a lot. :)

As for being Boricua, it is a huge compliment and very heartwarming every time someone thinks that about me (it happens every now and then) because they are indeed amazing dancers. Coming back to New York after a month away, during which I danced salsa in a couple of other places (rather unsatisfactory dances for the most part, with a few very nice exceptions, SF's toan-hoang included), I was blown away last night by what great dancers the people I had the pleasure to dance with were. They were all amazing, all felt the music so well regardless of whether they were doing mostly basic steps (like the older gentleman I danced with) or turns and other moves, everything was so musical, and their timing was so nice, I was in heaven. :) I had not realized that simply being in sync, I mean *really* in sync with the music as you step, could feel so musical, and I guess I was sort of taking that really nice timing that a lot of dancers have in NY for granted as I had only (mainly) danced salsa in NY.

Maybe I can be Boricua by allegiance? :) I've always had a special affinity with the Latin American culture, and I love Puerto Ricans--and I like to think that they like me as well. :)

I loved the music last night! Really, really nice. :) And the song you ended with is one of my favorites, I had a blast dancing to it. :)
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I guess that Boricua sabor is just a myth, yet you think if it is heart warming if someone thinks you are Boricua :P

What is the biggest compliment now in Kizomba now that you left salsa? "damn, your tantra skills are amazing" :P
 
TikiTaka said:
Deep down you know the biggest compliment to you is if somebody would say you move naturally like a Latina. Keep telling yourself otherwise :p
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Lol except I've already heard that pleeeenty of times, from Latinos ;) They'd ask me to dance, start speaking in Spanish, and then be shocked when they heard my accent :D

And I get it even without dancing ;) When I was in Cuba I used to pass for Cuban and get charged the lower Cuban entrance fees to salsa concerts and parties -- and Cubans are super keen to overcharge tourists so that tells you something :D

PS deep down you know that the best Latina dancers are the ones who are trained, not the street dancers, and that's actually how they get their "Latin flavor" ;)
 
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