thoughts on teaching on2 in on1 prevalent scene?
- Thread starter smiling28
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nowhiteshoes
Son
Cuban salsa is more real as you can really feeeeeeeeeeel the music 
scubasalsera
Changui
I taught on1 for three years in the DC-metro area. This was not so much my choice as the company owners', and I could not convince him to switch to On2. This always presented a dilemma for me, b/c DC has a very strong On2 scene and I wanted my students to be able to attend those socials and dance comfortably there. Since I was not permitted to teach On2, I compromised by teaching On1 with more On2 techniques (dancing in the slot, keeping movements smaller, tension in connections, etc.) I felt that at least this way my students had the foundation of some of the important principles of On2 dancing. I later referred several to local On2 schools and taught many On2 privates later. The On1 vs On2 comparison often came up, especially with students who took my Cha-Cha classes. Cha-Cha of course, is danced only On2. Most did not have any issue learning the new timing, but it just seems to make more sense to teach Mambo On2 and Cha-Cha, since the cord beats are the same. All of this said, it has been my experience that those who loved the dance and really wanted to learn, made the effort despite whatever switches in timing were required. I consider myself a "bilingual" dancer, in that I dance both On1 and On2 (although On2 is most definitely in my soul), and that I lead and follow as well. Don't let whatever style that is prevalent in your area determine what you'll learn or who you are as a dancer-there are a plethora of opportunities to grow, and the more you know, the more it empowers you as a dancer.
How is dancing in the slot, keeping movements smaller and tension in connections etc related to timing? You said it yourself that you taught them on1, so how are they "on2 techniques"?
scubasalsera
Changui
Premier, La Style-On1 Salsa traditionally consists of much larger movements, super or hyper extension in the arms, lots of big tricks, very flamboyant moves, and not strict on slot-style dancing. On1 Cuban style is similar, and also danced in a circular, rotating fashion. While I couldn't teach On2 timing as I would have liked, I was still able to incorporate those other tenets of On2 into my classes.
MAMBO_CEC
Son Montuno
Here you have two people dancing On2 that are not New Yorkers, Nery is from Florida and Liz who happens to be one of my favourite follows is from San Francisco, are they meeting all the basic requirements that would classify them as dancing NY style? probably !!! (dancing in the slot!!!!, good tension etc) Nery however is taking big steps.For me NY style is about many things,In addition to dancing in the slot, good tension between lead and follow, there are the turn patterns that are led, some being unique to New York (eg. the Copa, Copa cape etc.). I've included a clip of what I think is a typical NY style lead is.
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Thanks. Yes, style is indeed considerably different, less traveling, different set of moves used etc. I don't see significatn difference in timing of the steps, guy is also stepping on 4 many times, but it looks like there are differences in timing of the body, which is harder to evalueate ... Anyway, copa is used also in on1 in my venue, it's a kind of universal move. But what is copa cape ? Do you have some example ?
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
If only. Many's the time I've waited all night for a cha cha, asked a lady to dance who I don't know, and spent the whole dance doing basic step whilst she struggles to come to terms with her first experience of dancing cha cha on2. It even happened to me when I DJed a ballroom event. Every single girl I danced cha cha with had never danced on2 before.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I'm sure there are some P2 dancers in NY who would be 'interested' to learn that they are not NY style.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Cuban salsa is more real as you can really feeeeeeeeeeel the music
The thought of feeling timba is not one that fills me with enthusiasm.
MAMBO_CEC
Son Montuno
We've seen this here sooooo many times, I danced with a lady recently who seemed perplexed when I told her Cha Cha is danced on2, however to her credit she went along with it.
londongirl
Son
Just for example; post 207; He's rushing her into and out of the copa at 2:30; or she is. He steps without the on2 rhythm either.
the other guy in the clip before (post 200) also has timing issues in general, and is rushing her too (you can see when she has to step off time to adjust), and rushing esp in copa.
Then look at athoy during the first demo of the pattern (post 213), notice how during the copa she is "sitting" in it for a moment before being led out of it. it's not rushed. And later in the clip, he mentions this and says she is going to "sit in her hip". Understanding of that aspect of the copa is what is lacking in both the men and perhaps the women in the 2 preceding clips (though it's harder to tell if it's their rush, or them responding to the rushed in and out from the leaders). I would also say it's lacking in the vast majority of leaders and followers who haven't either spent a lot of time in NY or been taught by someone who understands it really well (there are only a couple of guys in London I think really do this move the NY way). Which is why I'm guessing 2 guys that are not native NYers didn't see that as being wrong in the clips they selected...
Otherwise in the other clips;
too much of normal patterns, not enough grooving/shining; they aren't dancing for the 2,6 as kading says. It's not bad pre se, I just wouldnt pick either of them as best in class examples of NY style. And I don't see why you would expect someone from outside a scene to dance with the style of another city. Not to mention there is an uptown style vs downtown, and the different major schools in NY all have their own style on top of traits common to the city as a whole.
In my opinion, and based on conversations I've had with others that have spent considerable time in NY but come from other scenes, many of the fundamental things that make up the style of NYC are not going to be visible in video (ie baseline energy/type of connection), nor able to be captured in one clip, especially with "names" who know the camera is on them.
the other guy in the clip before (post 200) also has timing issues in general, and is rushing her too (you can see when she has to step off time to adjust), and rushing esp in copa.
Then look at athoy during the first demo of the pattern (post 213), notice how during the copa she is "sitting" in it for a moment before being led out of it. it's not rushed. And later in the clip, he mentions this and says she is going to "sit in her hip". Understanding of that aspect of the copa is what is lacking in both the men and perhaps the women in the 2 preceding clips (though it's harder to tell if it's their rush, or them responding to the rushed in and out from the leaders). I would also say it's lacking in the vast majority of leaders and followers who haven't either spent a lot of time in NY or been taught by someone who understands it really well (there are only a couple of guys in London I think really do this move the NY way). Which is why I'm guessing 2 guys that are not native NYers didn't see that as being wrong in the clips they selected...
Otherwise in the other clips;
too much of normal patterns, not enough grooving/shining; they aren't dancing for the 2,6 as kading says. It's not bad pre se, I just wouldnt pick either of them as best in class examples of NY style. And I don't see why you would expect someone from outside a scene to dance with the style of another city. Not to mention there is an uptown style vs downtown, and the different major schools in NY all have their own style on top of traits common to the city as a whole.
In my opinion, and based on conversations I've had with others that have spent considerable time in NY but come from other scenes, many of the fundamental things that make up the style of NYC are not going to be visible in video (ie baseline energy/type of connection), nor able to be captured in one clip, especially with "names" who know the camera is on them.
Salsa Student
Son Montuno
That one's been on my "to learn" list for a while now, don't think there are too many local follows that would be able to follow it though.
Salsa Student
Son Montuno
I've had that happen too. OTOH, several of my regulars that refuse to dance salsa on2 are happy to dance cha cha that way.
Well you can skip spins after the copa first and add them later - that's what I will do when trying the move on the next party
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of - if I don't spend some time in NY, may dancing has no chance being close to NY style
MAMBO_CEC
Son Montuno
These are two guys who are part of the New York scene, Rasove in post 207 is a Yamulee dancer and Daniel in post 217 is the director of Baso, you can't be anymore New York estab. than that. What you would you pick as the best examples of New York?, I think I have spent enough time in New York,talk to enough people from New York to know what's what in the New York scene, hell,my mambo teacher here used to be a Santo Rico dancer. Vit asked what was fundamentally different between New York style and other style and I tried to give him a balanced view. I agree that all the New York schools have a style of their own,but why is it when you go dancing anywhere else but New York , and you see someone dance On2 you can tell right away they're from New York?, Also when I watch these clips,I really don't spend a lot of time going into dissecting them, these guys are the creme de la creme of New York dancers and they should know what they are doing, people pay a lot of money to go watch them..Anyway I would like to see your examples....peace out
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