The Definition of Sabor!

wildbill20056 said:
I think one of the amazing aspects of latin dance partaken of in this way is that whilst it takes years on years to master the movement and sabor and musical intimacy, it's also far more welcoming to folk who have literally no idea what they are doing! It's dancefloors with an ambience like this I learned to dance on whilst sandwiched between Colombinas (what I called my Colombian lady friends back then!), lost all sense of embarrassment and learned to just love the music and taking part in it.
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I want to second that. I knew no one at the event the video was filmed at when I first went, since there are no "salsa scene regulars" there. Yet I had a great time and was asked to dance numerous times. I recently went there for only the fourth time, having not been there in a few weeks, and was shocked when, as I was getting into the elevator, a man I hadn't ever even danced with told me to save him a dance later and that I dance very well and "with feeling". Then I continued to be shocked when before I even entered the dance room, several people smiled and said hello, clearly remembering me from my previous three nights even though I hadn't been there in a while. Also, people asked me to dance every song--and keep in mind that this is a more "traditional" dance night where people go not just to dance but also to socialize, and so you would expect them to mostly dance with friends and significant others (most of them go with their spouse if they have one), not with a complete stranger. And everyone I danced with wanted to talk to me after the dance, wanting to know my name, where I was from (the highest compliment to me is when Puerto Rican dancers assume I am latina :)), etc. And people who watched me dance from the side would come to me and compliment me afterwards about my dancing and would tell their friends to dance with me. Everyone is so friendly and welcoming. :) I feel very at home there and have added this to my "cannot miss" dance nights. :)
 
!!! said:
i must be missing something, but im none the wiser as to what "sabor" means, "latin american people dancing uncomplicated patterns with lots of body movement" ?

really liked the music in both clips btw
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In addition to wildbill's very nice description, perhaps seeing what the opposite of sabor looks like would also help--take a look at this dance:

 
haha carefully selected video :) but this time i'm afraid i have to agree with you. first i thought this couple is dancing to another song not to the one we are hearing. then i thought i dont know any salsa song that can match to this dance :)

side note about the dancers in the first video, yes they are dancing with great attitude and passion and i guess that was the reason you shared the video. however i think the musicality part is a bit exaggerated. may be my understanding of it just different or i didnt read enough posts from that legendary/toilet thread :)
 
olamalam said:
however i think the musicality part is a bit exaggerated.
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Explain what you mean...Musicality is a complex subject.

I think what you are saying is, if I was forced to choose between a dance with Terry (your current musicality role model I believe) or the 77 year old Cuban man in my video, or some of the other people I dance with at Taino Towers, who would I choose?

Well, my cha cha with Terry, to Salchicha con Huevo, was one of the best cha chas I've ever had, second only to the ones I dance with Frankie. Terry had me in cha cha heaven, that dance was pure musicality.

The Cuban man did not lead any of the checks and other musical things Terry led (I loved Terry's checks, gave me goosebumps :)). The Cuban dancer led simple turns and danced close to me. But he felt the music with every part of his being, and moved with me instead of just leading me, and when I danced with him, I felt like I was...in a different dimension, just us and the music. So I would choose him over Terry and I consider him more musical than Terry. Though I will happily dance with Terry any time I get the chance to. (side note--dancing salsa with Terry was a much less musical experience than the cha cha, I was disappointed...)

Also--seeing someone dancing in a video is totally different than actually dancing with them. This is why I said the video barely expresses the full extent of how nice it is to dance with these people.
 
you can have various reasons to choose with whom to dance and old Cuban dancer can be your chice for a combination of several reasons. and since musicality is a complex subject one dance can be more musical to you than other whereas its vice versa for others. this can change if you are a lead/follow or musical taste.
 
Sabrosura said:
Then I continued to be shocked when before I even entered the dance room, several people smiled and said hello, clearly remembering me from my previous three nights even though I hadn't been there in a while.
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So typical of the experiences I always had with "latino " clubs . I invariably got addressed in Spanish .
 
terence said:
So typical of the experiences I always had with "latino " clubs . I invariably got addressed in Spanish .
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Yeah, it is the biggest compliment when after dancing with Puerto Ricans they ask me after the dance, "Habla espanol?" :) It's their "politically correct" way of verifying their assumption that I am latina. :) I answer in Spanish, then they ask me where I am from, then they tell their friend, all shocked, where I am actually from. :)
 
olamalam said:
you can have various reasons to choose with whom to dance and old Cuban dancer can be your chice for a combination of several reasons. and since musicality is a complex subject one dance can be more musical to you than other whereas its vice versa for others. this can change if you are a lead/follow or musical taste.
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A couple of other thoughts while we are on this topic.

As I said, musicality is a complex subject and everyone's personal interpretation is different. And while a lot of people focus on leading musical "moves" or patterns or checks, I think musicality is much more than that. I think that, first of all, it cannot happen without feeling the music inside you, really feeling it. And that feeling cannot be taught. No matter how many ways to hit a break and to recognize a break you have, if you are not feeling the music, you are not musical. It's better than nothing, of course, but it's not being truly musical. I think it goes beyond that and it's really hard to put it into words, but feeling the music with all your being gives the dance a certain feel and a certain energy that will be pure musicality for you and your partner, even if perhaps for someone watching you dance it seems that there are not really that many "musical moves" happening. It's hard to explain unless you are experiencing it yourself and unless you feel the music in that profound way yourself. Sabor and musicality (which go hand in hand) are often best expressed in subtle ways, but these subtle ways can be many, many times more powerful than "obvious" things like hitting a break (and don't get me wrong, I love hitting breaks).

And, in my opinion, this is why you sometimes hear some people make comments like "he is boring, I don't know why people say he is musical" about dancers who have a reputation of being very musical but when these people watch their videos they don't see "obvious" things happening and they conclude that this dancer is not really that musical. I have heard it said on this forum that Frankie, for example, is not really musical and his dancing is "boring". To these people I say, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Dancing with him is like being transported into another dimension where only you, him and the music exist as one. But this is hard to explain because to most humans the eye is their main source of information and the one they trust the most--and if they don't "see" it, they think it's not there. So, just trust me on this one. :)
 
olamalam said:
yeah, you are talking about what you felt, i'm talking about what i saw.
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Honestly, I can't imagine how you don't get that this is one of the most 'musical' videos posted on the forums in a while. Literally you're seeing an entire room-full of people clearly feeling the music and moving to and with it. That's the definition of musicality surely?

Now don't get me wrong I enjoy my high energy, technical salsa dances, but at the base of it I hope you'd still find this level of passion and musical interaction. Like Dj Ara said, look I can agree with DJ.A!, if these people started busting out more turns and patterns, I'd expect it still to be full of sabor ;) IF everyone got their start in an environment such as this I think we'd have an even happier, more sabor-filled salsa world ;)
 
wildbill20056 said:
Try to watch the clip whilst 'feeling' the music.
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I think overall - and im open to education from you experts (ie everyone else on this forum) - but my working assumption is that "person x is feeling the music" just means "i like the way person x was dancing", and says more about the speaker than person x.

In this clip, you are seeing a dancefloor dominated by people forming the 'holy trinity' of dance. That being both partners feeling the music, as well as playing off each other. The result is a unique energy, a spice that permeates the room, being created and felt by each and every dancer. Look at the way they are communicating with each other, smiling, their body language is a product of the music and their interaction with their partner.

Rather than being focussed on technical perfection (that doesn't mean there is plenty of excellent technique on show), these people are focussed on living the dance. ;)
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I can see that they are smiling,and not over-complicating a simple tune, which is a good - im not saying it's not good dancing (im not qualified to judge), but beyond that, dunno. honestly, nothing about the dancing makes me want to watch the video to the end (the tune might).
 
terence said:
It had more of a jazz kinda sound goin on. And , I got dizzy watching the non stop turns..1 min. was more than enough for me ,
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Sorry, I was referring to the vid that launched this thread.

I've still not seen the one everyone's downing. I'm not strong enough for it yet.
 
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