Yeah it would be on2 for me too - there's such a strong emphasis on the 2.
Songs dictating the beat to dance on?
- Thread starter olamalam
- Start date
No, I mean it might feel better in partnerwork with one timing and expression than with other. With the timing you describe I see not a big difference between on1/on2 while dancing solo.
olamalam
Son Montuno
If I'm dancing on1: piano (for 1&5), cow bell (1,3,5,7), conga (double taps at 4&, 8&)
If I'm dancing on2: piano (for 1. since conga pattern is symmetrical it helps differentiating 2 from 6), conga (for 2&6), clave (if hearable)
I know that music is always subjective and I dont believe that "most" people etc.
It depends, as always, on whereabouts one dances . I would venture to say that the majority of " dancers " are used to a more middle of the road style, with some obvious exceptions ( large Metro areas ).
wildbill20056
Son Montuno
lurker; said:
No I'm sorry but this is simply not true. on2 dancers have no greater propensity towards musical understanding than anyone else. in that I even include genuine mambo dancers as well as ET.
I strongly doubt a random sample of the world's dancers on different timings would show any significant imbalance of musical knowledge. It's natural to step on2 if that's all you are shown.
Further mike bello suggested on1 songs night lack the tumbao? I'm not sure how that would actually be salsa?
timberamayor
Son Montuno
I'm like you. I don't pay attention to the congas in particular unless it's a rumba. I don't really pay specific attention to any instrument in picking the beat to dance on. For me it's a question of tempo and the ponche. Since I dance contratiempo based on son I'm really not interested in the 2 at all but rather the 4 and 8. So songs that have a strong 4 and 8 (often you hear it in the bass but it can be emphasized in many other ways as well) and are slow to mid-tempo feel good as contratiempo while fast songs or songs where the 4 doesn't really stand out in any way, are more on1 for me. As a follower I dance wherever the guy leads and more often than not it's on1.
timberamayor
Son Montuno
it's not propensity. it's necessity, or rather, almost a necessity.
I think we, by far, as semi-pro dancers (truth be told that's what we are) forget that, by far, we are the minority. For every trained dancer's social there are 10 packed Latin venues with people dancing salsa; 30+ house parties, 100 people in the shower, and so on. When people are left to their own devices and learn to dance salsa on their own, or from a family member, or by imitation, they almost always end up dancing on1 or on3.
Most people innately feel the pulse of the music: the downbeat. So a lot of times if you can feel the phrasing of the music, the 1 sets you up to get started. Since you don't really start on the 1, you start to dance on the next downbeat, which is the 3. This is precisely one of the reasons it is a little easier to Learn on1. Hence why on1 is more popular.
Now you might go to one of these venues and find an on1 dancer. You go ask the simplest question about numbers and he/she might even laugh at you. But when you ask an on2 dancer there you will more than likely get a serious response. Even if it is the wrong answer, there is at least awareness of the structure of the song. To learn on2, there is a bare minimum you need to know in order to train your ears and get the timing. This is sometimes enough for the individual to become curious enough to learn more. it has nothing to do with propensity or one being a better dancer than the other. it's just a reality.
Now, this is all based on experience, anecdotes, logic, and probably some fiction. Nevertheless, all of that forms the perception in the salsa world and you will find countless threads in these forum validating the existence of this perception, some of which are recent. If you want a survey/statistics, which we both know is not happening, then you'll have to ask one for the countless perceptions in the salsa world which we all discuss constantly here. It is not a fair request/argument is what I'm getting at.
This is all somewhat off-topic and I do not want this to become a timing war (as usual). So I'll agree to disagree if a disagreement still exists.
On the tumbao question, I cannot speak for Mike Bello and I did say he just gave a quick word on the subject so I hope we don't crucify him, for my sake. But yes there are other patterns other than tumbao. is it salsa? you tell me.
olamalam
Son Montuno
I didn't reply to this sub-discussion going on here because of this:
In order not to decrease the productivity of this thread, I'm opening a new irrelevant on1-on2 discussion thread, we can continue to this sub-discussion there.
This both makes sense and I can relate to. (Am I biased?
Sure.) But that would make ET2 timing as irrelevant as On1.
olamalam
Son Montuno
Here you go:
this timing is better than others
this timing is better than others
seeing the description of that thread it is clear you have completely misunderstood the so called sub-discussion. snobberish? really? this is the second time you've gone emotional.
While I would want to agree with you, most teachers (not even dancers) when they explain how music relates to dancing on2, refer to conga slap and clave. This is not a very solid argument, since most salsa songs contain these elements. It's like saying that an orange juice goes better with the vodka and is cooler than cranberry juice because there is an ice in the cocktail.
While I would want to agree with you, most teachers (not even dancers) when they explain how music relates to dancing on2, refer to conga slap and clave. This is not a very solid argument, since most salsa songs contain these elements. It's like saying that an orange juice goes better with the vodka and is cooler than cranberry juice because there is an ice in the cocktail.
not a solid argument for what? the only point I am making is that on2 is a bit harder to learn in terms of timing, therefore a bare minimum of understanding of the structure of the songs is needed. explain plz...
While I agree what you write, that does not explain why some songs are dictationg different timing, which is the subject of the thread. Bare minimum is the same in both styles.
olamalam
Son Montuno
What I understood from this paragraph:
is, On2 dancers are more aware of salsa music structure. Is that right? Or is it my misunderstanding?
The title of the topic I opened: On1 or On2 - Which needs better musicality?
Isn't it reflecting my deduction?
And I think you are referring to this paragraph regarding my misunderstanding:
Isn't it what you are saying? If not, I'm sorry, it's because of (seriously) my lack of reading in English skills.
Regarding emotionality:
I'm not going emotional. I'm still trying to improve my timing and musicality but my timing is not so bad in both styles, I'm not taking it personally.
And regarding reality
I do know some people (in this forum and outside world) who thinks that "dancing On2 requires better musicality" is a snobbish statement.