Salsa open diary

[bailar y tocar]

1.5
Ppl are taught it's after the 1, so they think it's immediately after the 1 and give no regard to the timing of where the two actually is. Ppl are stepping on the "And" if you count it like, 1-And-2.

Agreed that there's room for how to align the steps with the beat. But surely it's possible to stay exactly with the alignment you've chosen even if the song is fast? I'd be quite upset with the musicians if they didn't manage, and I don't see the fundamental difference between stepping and playing an instrument.

My thoughts on this concept is that it may be different as to what an audience sees as compared to what a dancing couple is doing. As @Offbeat stated, if the couple is in "agreement" to step slightly late it will look like they are dancing on the next half beat to an outsider.

Fwiw, I have often danced with follows who are a bit slower than the beat and I am not able to hit it where I want to hit it. In those situations, I give up on doing any fancy footwork or fancy moves as being late or being early feels wrong to me.

By contrast, a follow who attempts to rush the step is much easier for me to adjust. I just engage with a more solid lead (example: a double hand hold).

 

[eclo]

Dear Salsa Diary,
8 out of 10 on2 dancers don't actually dance on2.
Love,
Jaime

ive noticed that too, I think bc in UK most ppl transition from on1, but often their on2 just kinda feels like on1 but different footwork. The 1 is still the anchor beat or whatever you’d call it and IME still feels very dominant vs son/contratiempo or power2 where the 1 isn’t really emphasised much at all.
But I dunno maybe it’s because I’ve just been dancing more son lately!

 

[MamboJazz]

I have many times heard live salsa band when they are not playing in synch. It needs band a practice and sometimes they haven’t practiced.

Indeed. Musicians need to be excellent pros to play synced all the time. The typical amateur band will have variations which can make it sound irregular.

 

[MamboJazz]

As @Offbeat stated, if the couple is in "agreement" to step slightly late it will look like they are dancing on the next half beat to an outsider.

Recently I caught myself thinking while dancing on2 this specific song would have its breaks at "2" - but this would be rather unusual. Then tried it at home on1 and realized the breaks were at "1" - but when you dance on2 your feet are already "on the way" at the "1" (it is before breaking) and so it can seem you pronounce "2" instead of "1". Dancing on1 the "1" is pronounced sharper as this is the break-point.

 

[bailar y tocar]

Indeed. Musicians need to be excellent pros to play synced all the time. The typical amateur band will have variations which can make it sound irregular.

The worst is when an amateur is playing a bell or other percussion along with the recorded or live performance music and they are WRONG!!!! It is impossible to ignore the wrong beats if you can hear them. I have been to clubs in Cali Colombia where they actually have signs posted that prohibit the playing of instruments.

 

[bailar y tocar]

Salsa caleña i.e. Cali style salsa is growing in south Florida.
This is good news...... except.... I will need to up my game.

My Cali style salsa is actually very basic with a few improvised step combinations that are NOT the standard step combinations that all trained Cali style dancers know. So, when I am dancing Cali style with an intermediate / advanced Cali style follow, she will be "leading" the standard Cali style steps combinations that I have seen but don't know all that well and I copy the step combinations. As I am the only Cali style lead in the house who will dance with anyone, it's all good for now.

So far so good.

That dynamic is going to change soon. There are at least three dance studios that are teaching Cali style in the south Florida metro. They are located nearby in south Broward County and in northern Dade County and it's only a matter of time until a few leads get into it. In addition, I would like to formalize and break down my improv step combinations so follows can follow them. So when the newbie leads to Cali style get on the dance floor I can still maintain my edge .

 

[DJ Yuca]

Salsa caleña i.e. Cali style salsa is growing in south Florida.
This is good news...... except.... I will need to up my game.

When are you back in Cali? I'm sure you know better than I do that there are innumerable dance schools and private dance instructors here who would be very happy to help you raise your level.

I was rereading an old thread a while back wherein you and possibly some other posters predicted that Cali style would become more popular outside S America. It's taken over a decade but maybe your prediction is becoming true.

 

[MamboJazz]

I have been to clubs in Cali Colombia where they actually have signs posted that prohibit the playing of instruments.

Interesting. Do they control bags if you try to bring clave sticks into the club?

Here in middle europe some of the latino DJs bring congas, clave sticks and cowbell, and everybody is welcome to play them. But nobody except the DJ touches them, people here are rather shy and inhibited. Latinos are different, and add the "I'm latino and believe I got it in my blood"-factor so I understand that this could get problematic in Cali.

Actually my favourite social has two congas standing next to the dancefloor, it's a good place to stand behind those congas and watch the dancefloor. Several times I thought it would be nice now to know how to play tumbao. Well, two days ago I ordered a conga, I want to learn it now. Fortunately my flat has thick walls and nice neighbors.

 

[DJ Yuca]

Well, two days ago I ordered a conga, I want to learn it now. Fortunately my flat has thick walls and nice neighbors.

Good for you. I strongly recommend that you go to the source and take lessons, not just from a pro but from someone who has actually recorded on iconic albums. Johnny Rodríguez and Nicky Marrero both now offer online classes. (I can personally highly recommend the former.)

Of course most conga players nowadays have 2 drums minimum, but back in the day many conga players sounded great with just 1.

 

[DJ Yuca]

Interesting. Do they control bags if you try to bring clave sticks into the club?

People sometimes take a clave out with them, but cowbell, güiro and maracas are far more common. Bongos are also occasionally seen. Timbales and congas too, but I think they are paid musicians rather than punters.

Here in middle europe some of the latino DJs bring congas, clave sticks and cowbell, and everybody is welcome to play them. But nobody except the DJ touches them, people here are rather shy and inhibited. Latinos are different, and add the "I'm latino and believe I got it in my blood"-factor so I understand that this could get problematic in Cali.

I first started with Latin percussion by using it whilst DJing. The only people who ever asked to borrow them were Latins, who fortunately made sure they were returned safely. As my instruments are of decent quality I found loaning them out stressful. (I trusted the people I lent them to, but England is full of opportunistic thieves.)

And yes, instruments in Cali can get messy. Cowbell in particular, as it's so powerful and loud.

 

[bailar y tocar]

When are you back in Cali? I'm sure you know better than I do that there are innumerable dance schools and private dance instructors here who would be very happy to help you raise your level.

I was rereading an old thread a while back wherein you and possibly some other posters predicted that Cali style would become more popular outside S America. It's taken over a decade but maybe your prediction is becoming true.

Hopefully for the holidays and La Feria. It all depends on the USCIS as they have to issue a travel document or the green card to Maria. I may have to stop in anyway as we have to stock up on prescriptions which are 90% cheaper in Colombia as compared to the US.

One of the three dance studios teaching Cali style here in Florida is NOT owned by a Colombian dancer. They just decided to add Cali style to their repertoire. There is a Cali style school in Paris as well.

 

[Jaime_Pipoca]

Where do you dance? I've met couple dancers like this, but they've always been exceptions in their scene. And one I've danced recently and know that she can do all other timings as well, if she wants.

Dance studios and venues that have a live band.

To hit the "1.5" accurately it would have to be a Son or Guajira, right? Most salsa is way faster than "1 and 2" They are more like 1,2 and I only put the comma to show that they are separate.
By the same standard would on1 dancers be on 0.5 or are they exactly one the 1.0?

Can't say I've seen a son dance on the 1.5, so my reference for that isn't great. 2, yes.

The 1,2 for salsa would also be an accurate interpretation of on2 not dancing on 2 and instead after the 1.

The worst is when an amateur is playing a bell or other percussion along with the recorded or live performance music and they are WRONG!!!! It is impossible to ignore the wrong beats if you can hear them. I have been to clubs in Cali Colombia where they actually have signs posted that prohibit the playing of instruments.

This here! Especially when it's a dance instructor. Ughh, it really is the worse though. It makes me want to stop the dance just to correct them. It's painful. Clave sticks also played incorrectly too. It drives me up the wall when they shift the timing, or just don't play any timing, lol.

two days ago I ordered a conga, I want to learn it now. Fortunately my flat has thick walls and nice neighbors.

It'll change your salsa world. You'll see and hear things differently. You'll be able to hear and experience so much more.

 

[MamboJazz]

I was rereading an old thread a while back wherein you and possibly some other posters predicted that Cali style would become more popular outside S America. It's taken over a decade but maybe your prediction is becoming true.

Cali style means moving your feet fast - I don't see any preference for that in europe at least. In europe the whole focus has moved from legs to arms, the last fashion being sensual lovers standing still while doing their rolls and waves. Most bachata followers stare helplessly at me when dominican music is played and I add some dominican footwork. And intermediate salsa leads famously do their spinning while standing still themselves.

That would be a bigger revolution if Cali style would become a fashion here - but why not, all dance schools would sell lots of courses because nobody here knows how to do it.

 

[Deleted member 324432]

Cali style means moving your feet fast - I don't see any preference for that in europe at least. In europe the whole focus has moved from legs to arms, the last fashion being sensual lovers standing still while doing their rolls and waves. Most bachata followers stare helplessly at me when dominican music is played and I add some dominican footwork. And intermediate salsa leads famously do their spinning while standing still themselves.

That would be a bigger revolution if Cali style would become a fashion here - but why not, all dance schools would sell lots of courses because nobody here knows how to do it.

I think that preference might just be missing among the established salsa crowd. As far as I can tell, Cali style *is* growing, but it's rather growing by bringing in new people.

Part of the appeal seems to be that you don't have to be sexy and elegant; there's a more sporty challenge to learning the footwork; a bit more symmetry between the roles (not in terms of lead/follow relationship, but symmetric footwork is quite different from the salsa default "leader turns follower").

Regarding growth, in Germany from what I know: There's a new team/school in Karlsruhe (that does both social and performance). Berlin by now has three schools teaching Cali style, and there's weekly and monthly socials. Cologne has had classes for a while, maybe also Munich and Freiburg. Further away, there's been the first salsa caleña congresses in Madrid, Stefanny Moreno's school in Barcelona seems to be growing. I think Paris has an established scene, don't know about the trajectory there though. London anyone? (Hmm could be a good idea to start a thread collecting the various caleña communities across Europe, or would that be too spammy?)

 

[MamboJazz]

(Hmm could be a good idea to start a thread collecting the various caleña communities across Europe, or would that be too spammy?)

Yes, I find this a good idea to make an extra thread. It's a more interesting theme than many other threads were. If you do this I would answer there.

 

[Amun]

I realize nobody can tell me from the keyboard without seeing me, though I had a strange experience that I'm still processing. I've been dancing for maybe two years now. I've been to countless different schools, done dozens of private classes, and I've been going to socials for ages roughly twice a week. I tried a new school, the teacher has a good rep and is genuinely a great dancer. I was the only person in class who's been called out on literally every more, no jokes even basic step and absolute basics like crossbody lead. Teacher insisted I had my positioning wrong, stepping wrong (and kept correcting me to e.g. move my feet like 20cm to the side etc), apparently, there wasn't a single thing I'd done without a need for correction. I feel that if it was such a pure disaster, somebody would surely called me out earlier? I don't know what to think. Before anyone asks, it 100% wasn't on 2 class.

 

[Deleted member 324432]

I realize nobody can tell me from the keyboard without seeing me, though I had a strange experience that I'm still processing. I've been dancing for maybe two years now. I've been to countless different schools, done dozens of private classes, and I've been going to socials for ages roughly twice a week. I tried a new school, the teacher has a good rep and is genuinely a great dancer. I was the only person in class who's been called out on literally every more, no jokes even basic step and absolute basics like crossbody lead. Teacher insisted I had my positioning wrong, stepping wrong (and kept correcting me to e.g. move my feet like 20cm to the side etc), apparently, there wasn't a single thing I'd done without a need for correction. I feel that if it was such a pure disaster, somebody would surely called me out earlier? I don't know what to think. Before anyone asks, it 100% wasn't on 2 class.

There's huge variety in teachers. One of my favourite linear teachers had a very precise idea of the technique he was teaching, and I could see them making the kind of corrections you're describing even to otherwise experienced dancers. Though that wouldn't have been "you're doing it wrong" but "here we do it like this". I learned a lot there, even if there were some classes I felt broken due to overload of details. If they're generally nice about it and you can deal with that current feeling, it could be worth sticking it out. Also fine to choose other teachers of course.

 

[MamboJazz]

Good for you. I strongly recommend that you go to the source and take lessons, not just from a pro but from someone who has actually recorded on iconic albums. Johnny Rodríguez and Nicky Marrero both now offer online classes. (I can personally highly recommend the former.)

Of course most conga players nowadays have 2 drums minimum, but back in the day many conga players sounded great with just 1.

Yes, as a start I ordered only one conga to see if I really keep on exercising with it.

And I'm luckier than I could hope: I thought it's useless to google for that, but indeed found today a conga tumbao course in my home town starting in three weeks They will also teach basics of timbales and bongos. Looking forward to it.

 

[Smejmoon]

I realize nobody can tell me from the keyboard without seeing me, though I had a strange experience that I'm still processing. I've been dancing for maybe two years now. I've been to countless different schools, done dozens of private classes, and I've been going to socials for ages roughly twice a week. I tried a new school, the teacher has a good rep and is genuinely a great dancer. I was the only person in class who's been called out on literally every more, no jokes even basic step and absolute basics like crossbody lead. Teacher insisted I had my positioning wrong, stepping wrong (and kept correcting me to e.g. move my feet like 20cm to the side etc), apparently, there wasn't a single thing I'd done without a need for correction. I feel that if it was such a pure disaster, somebody would surely called me out earlier? I don't know what to think. Before anyone asks, it 100% wasn't on 2 class.

Is teacher dancing much better than you? Would you like to dance like they do?
Do you like the teacher?
Do they have students that dance better than you or the way you'd like to dance?

I think this is more important to know. Getting personalized feedback is like getting private class while paying for group class. Big win for you.

If you feel it's a harassment, then leave them, obv.

 

[bailar y tocar]

I think that preference might just be missing among the established salsa crowd. As far as I can tell, Cali style *is* growing, but it's rather growing by bringing in new people.

Part of the appeal seems to be that you don't have to be sexy and elegant; there's a more sporty challenge to learning the footwork; a bit more symmetry between the roles (not in terms of lead/follow relationship, but symmetric footwork is quite different from the salsa default "leader turns follower").

Regarding growth, in Germany from what I know: There's a new team/school in Karlsruhe (that does both social and performance). Berlin by now has three schools teaching Cali style, and there's weekly and monthly socials. Cologne has had classes for a while, maybe also Munich and Freiburg. Further away, there's been the first salsa caleña congresses in Madrid, Stefanny Moreno's school in Barcelona seems to be growing. I think Paris has an established scene, don't know about the trajectory there though. London anyone? (Hmm could be a good idea to start a thread collecting the various caleña communities across Europe, or would that be too spammy?)

That seems to be meaningful growth of Cali style in Germany. When I was there in July 2022, I did not see anyone dance Cali style although they knew what it was when I danced it there.

In south Florida and in NYC/NJ it is almost entirely due to pro dancers/ instructors from Cali or other cities in Colombia who have moved to the US to teach. Many of their best students (initially) are other Colombian immigrants or 2nd generation Colombian Americans.

I know the instructor/performer who teaches Cali style in Paris. I saw videos of her performance team. They are very good. They traveled to Cali to dance in the Salsodromo of the Feria de Cali a few years ago (before the pandemic). I don't know how many dancers are still at it in Paris.

Overall, I am not "worried" about Caleños arriving and showing off how it's done and dancing way better than I do. I still get the gringo bonus . I will need to up my game before all of these instructors become very successful.