Salsa open diary

GentleDancer said:
In general I suspect these huge classes have not much to offer for an advanced dancer.
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When they are held in a city, they are not huge. Sometimes the capacity might be capped to 30 or 40 dancers. I have seen a lot of advance dancers going to such workshops. To them it is like a challenge of doing something new.

GentleDancer said:
I spend 3000+ Euros in private lessons during those two years of Covid times (while I saved money from not doing much else due to Covid).
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30 privates? 15 privates a year? Absolute total amount appears very large but broken down by number of privates it is at par.

Now that you have invested (not spent) this much money, you should go to all the big congresses to recoup the ROI by actually spending more euros :D
 
Offbeat said:
Honestly you don't need Bersy workshop for that. It is beneficial to take that workshop after your basic body movement is better. Otherwise doing what Bersy or anyone else teaching will look awkward when you do it.

Better body movement comes through homework of finessing your isolations. By that I mean hours of solo practice. Like what @Chris_Yannick does. He is an excellent example of how to get better body movement. Once you have it then those workshops can add value.

We have a lot of those instructors that come through the town for a weekend of workshops.75% if the workshop is all body movement. Many attend it and the weekends are popular. Summer perks fly in from other west coast cities for the weekend. But those that haven't had better body movement already don't look good nor smooth. Everyone I know that has better body movement had spent dedicated and purposeful practice getting there. Personally I am a lazy slob to practice solo. So I don't do any of those workshops either.
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I wasn't clear. I don't want to spend money on workshops that won't help me develop that. Ataca and alemana are teaching 2 bachata workshops. I dont care.
 
GentleDancer said:
Depends if either the workshops are so much fun to expect or if you are determined to work afterwards with the workshop content. Which means viewing the videos again and again and practicing it. But few people ever watch those videos later. In general I suspect these huge classes have not much to offer for an advanced dancer.
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I think workshops done en masse like at a congress are some of the worst value propositions in Salsa.

Spending $150 on workshops - let's say there are 10 workshops spread throughout a weekend - where you are running around trying to get to the next workshop and where each workshop is independent from each other and non-progressive, seems like a fool's errand.

A 2-3 hour private for the same price with one good teacher will probably be more worthwhile.

Similarly, I suspect there are certain places where you pay a lot of money for classes where there are clear goals and progressions. A place that even high level dancers go to improve their skills. Sosa Academy comes to mind as it attracts many high level dancers from around the world to train. I would rank that type of Academy system much higher on the investment scale than local workshops and congress workshops.

In the Salsa world, as far as best value for money goes, I'd rank:

1) Group classes in person
2) Private classes in person
3) Progressive specialty workshops (online or in person)
4) Congress workshops in person
5) Shoes <-- shoes are important, but I find they have the least impact on my dancing.
 
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Offbeat said:
You will be surprised how many people will routinely spend that money on the salsa workshops but not dance socially as much.
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When I think about money spent on workshops (I will omit regular Salsa classes since generally those are seen as good ROI), I'm looking beyond the 1-2 hours that I'm paying for. If the workshop is expensive ($50+ per workshop), I have to ask myself whether that money could be better spent watching YT videos online for free or even perusing social media for cheap technique classes (which can run anywhere from $5-$30 per class)

If that class will inspire me to practice 5 hours on my own, then it's money well spent. If I'm only going to be there in person for 1 hour and then file the material away on my phone and never look at it again, then it's a bad investment.

I think I spent $150 total for 8 months subscription to Eddie Torres Jr's online classes. Did I think it was worth it? Absolutely! With the amount of practice I did after each class and using the tips he provided to improve every facet of my solo dancing, I would say the value I received was far more than $150. Maybe since I was already motivated to practice regardless of the material, that made the investment even more worth it.

To me, that is the benchmark for value. I am now considering subscribing to Frankie's online classes, but again, in my mind I'm calculating value. The most important thing I'm looking at is whether I will be able to take what he teaches beyond the 30 or so minutes of class time.

Without taking the time to properly digest the material and dedicated practice outside of that class/workshop, then it doesn't matter how good the teacher is because a few workshops isn't going to change very much. The improvement comes through after the many hours of practice.
 
Offbeat said:
30 privates? 15 privates a year? Absolute total amount appears very large but broken down by number of privates it is at par.
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Exactly, broken down per 20 months it is the same amount as a congress each month. But in private classes I can precisely learn what I want and have a perfect partner for practicing it.

Offbeat said:
Now that you have invested (not spent) this much money, you should go to all the big congresses to recoup the ROI by actually spending more euros :D
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I recoup the ROI at the moment at socials here. When Covid flattens down I will think about travelling to some scenes, maybe congresses.
 
Offbeat said:
30 privates? 15 privates a year? Absolute total amount appears very large but broken down by number of privates it is at par.
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That calculates to 100Euros per private. I don't know anyone in Europe charging that much for private lessons. For that money, I'm expecting Terry to come into my house lol.
 
1derpalm said:
Ataca bad alemana are SUPPOSEDLY coming to Ontario in March. I doubt it as I've been burned twice already with 1 no refund and one move to a different day with local teachers only. So I'm cautious
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I would be surprised if you paid for a workshop with a specific teacher but not be refunded if said teacher couldn't make it. Since you said it happened already, then I would not give that organization any more money without assurances.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
That calculates to 100Euros per private. I don't know anyone in Europe charging that much for private lessons. For that money, I'm expecting Terry to come into my house lol.
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I think that is almost a standard rate for privates on either side of the Atlantic for a while now. Granted that is more Western Europe and NA. Eastern Europe is less expensive.
 
Offbeat said:
I think that is almost a standard rate for privates on either side of the Atlantic for a while now. Granted that is more Western Europe and NA. Eastern Europe is less expensive.
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Even 100Euros is like $113 usd (or $130 cdn, which is really high). That seems like on the upper end of pricing even for big cities.

I know one friend who took privates with a famous Parisian dancer for like 25Euros.

In general, I find private lesson pricing the most variable and widely inconsistent.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
That calculates to 100Euros per private. I don't know anyone in Europe charging that much for private lessons. For that money, I'm expecting Terry to come into my house lol.
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Yes, in middle europe it seems to be around 60-70 Euros if you are taking like 6 classes in a row (a single one usually is a bit more). But can surely be more for celebs, or in expensive places.
 
11am - 1pm - Workshops Set 1

1pm - 2pm - Lunch Break

2pm - 7pm - Workshops Set 2

8pm - 9pm - Special Showcase

9pm - 2am - Social Dancing

WORKSHOPS (11:00 am – 7 pm)
• SALSA INTERMEDIATE with Daria and Roberto $30
• LADIES BACHATA STYLING with Maude Chenier $30
• BACHATA ADVANCED with Corinne and Victor $40
• DOMINICAN BACHATA with Caryl Cuizon $30
• BACHATA INTERMEDIATE with Salma and Fernando $30
• SALSA with Clifton and Andrea $30
• BACHATA INTERMEDIATE with Ataca y La Alemana $50
• BACHATA ADVANCED with Ataca y La Alemana $50
• SALSA ADVANCED with Samantha and Adriano $30
• BACHATA DIPS & TRICKS with Renaud $30

SHOW & SOCIAL
• $40 from 8pm – 2am
 
1derpalm said:
11am - 1pm - Workshops Set 1

1pm - 2pm - Lunch Break

2pm - 7pm - Workshops Set 2

8pm - 9pm - Special Showcase

9pm - 2am - Social Dancing

WORKSHOPS (11:00 am – 7 pm)
• SALSA INTERMEDIATE with Daria and Roberto $30
• LADIES BACHATA STYLING with Maude Chenier $30
• BACHATA ADVANCED with Corinne and Victor $40
• DOMINICAN BACHATA with Caryl Cuizon $30
• BACHATA INTERMEDIATE with Salma and Fernando $30
• SALSA with Clifton and Andrea $30
• BACHATA INTERMEDIATE with Ataca y La Alemana $50
• BACHATA ADVANCED with Ataca y La Alemana $50
• SALSA ADVANCED with Samantha and Adriano $30
• BACHATA DIPS & TRICKS with Renaud $30

SHOW & SOCIAL
• $40 from 8pm – 2am
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Is the social also going to be 70% Bachata?!?

If they don't separate Salsa & Bachata in different rooms, I would demand free entry.
 
1derpalm said:
WORKSHOPS (11:00 am – 7 pm)
• SALSA INTERMEDIATE with Daria and Roberto $30
• LADIES BACHATA STYLING with Maude Chenier $30
• BACHATA ADVANCED with Corinne and Victor $40
• DOMINICAN BACHATA with Caryl Cuizon $30
• BACHATA INTERMEDIATE with Salma and Fernando $30
• SALSA with Clifton and Andrea $30
• BACHATA INTERMEDIATE with Ataca y La Alemana $50
• BACHATA ADVANCED with Ataca y La Alemana $50
• SALSA ADVANCED with Samantha and Adriano $30
• BACHATA DIPS & TRICKS with Renaud $30

SHOW & SOCIAL
• $40 from 8pm – 2am
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I never saw that you can pay per single hours, especially with different prices: now some know they value less than others. What I always saw is you per whole days.
 
So... 3 or 4 of the workshop teachers are Toronto area (group classes are usually $22).
There are 3 salsa workshops (one advanced and until recently I would have considered joining, but don't see a point if my body movement is not even intermediate looking (it isn't).
Robert Smith from the Cure could be teaching bachata and I wouldn't go.
Most pressing is the social and shows are bundled together for 40$.
The social at the Lithuanian is $20 usually. So I only have option of paying more for something I don't wan't, if I pay for just social.
What a First World crisis.
 
GentleDancer said:
I never saw that you can pay per single hours, especially with different prices: now some know they value less than others. What I always saw is you per whole days.
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It is more of a local mini congress. A few are local teachers. The $50 are the out of towners. Personally I'd rather pay per class I want. That's a lot of bachata. 11 am to 7 pm and 3 salsa classes?
Also the pricing I quoted for the whole day was EARLYBIRD. It's an extra 15 till early Feb. Goes up again.
 
1derpalm said:
WORKSHOPS (11:00 am – 7 pm)
• SALSA INTERMEDIATE with Daria and Roberto $30
• LADIES BACHATA STYLING with Maude Chenier $30
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Beware if those first two mentioned are at the same time: lots of followers will go to Lady Styling, so you end up paying $30 for a Salsa course without followers :(
 
1derpalm said:
There are 3 salsa workshops (one advanced and until recently I would have considered joining, but don't see a point if my body movement is not even intermediate looking
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Is the class going to be partnerwork or shines? I think advanced Salsa classes these days primarily consist of partnerwork, no?
 
NYC diary continued :)

Back in NY for a week after 10 days in the Caribbean.

Made it to Taj tonight (regular NYC Monday party with live band) straight from the airport :)
It was much fuller than when I went 2 weeks ago, and almost no one had masks on anymore (I kept mine on). Vitico La Magia (who I hadn't seen in a long time) was there, for those of you old enough to know who he is :)

Speaking of Taj: their videographer was doing aerial videos when I was there 2 weeks ago, and luckily one of them was when I was dancing by the band with one of my favorite (and oldest) NY partners -- this is the first time I see an aerial video of me dancing, really cool to see oneself dancing from aerial angle :) (I'm the one in all black with the bare shoulders top and ponytail, with dark mask, dancing by the stage with the guy with black shirt -- the video pans back and forth and switches to different aerial angles).

Such a precious memory of my NYC visit, as Taj is one of my favorite salsa venues in NY :) And it's also one of the few salsa venues that shave endured unchanged from when I started dancing 10 years ago.

 
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