Salsa on the rise or not?

MrR said:
And ever dawned to you, that you may be the exception, not the norm?
You live in a filter bubble. All your dancer friends are selected for liking that style. You are the enlightened ones and those being more into pop music are inferiors - and yes, you sound that way.
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I am generally of the opinion that people that devote more time to any hobby usually are more "enlightened", be it sports, salsa, music, wine, hiking or whatever. We could have a philosophical debate about what enlightened means if you like, but prob not the right thread.

For the record, these "enlightened" dancer friends of mine (with the closest one being a huge romantica fan!) coincidentally also happen to represent some of the most popular DJs, even among the plebes.

And yes, I'm very aware that many people like salsa romantica or Justin Beiber since, you know, I have eyes and the ability to read top 20 charts.
 
MrR said:
And yes, all those "only top 40 pop hits" arguments basically are "the popular music is the wrong music".
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My point is just that i don't think "linear-specific music" is bland. I'm not a linear dancer but i like salsa as much as Timba if not more.

Mixed events do work well i think. A club i used to go to had a reggaeton and latin hits dance floor and a salsa/timba/bachata dance floor and i worked really well.
 
To me the difference in timba(ton) vs Salsa dancing isn't a matter of de-slottifying. It has a different feel. Timna frequently (in Havana Anyways) uses Clave Guaguancó. That in itself lends to the style, timing, flourishes and moves you do. Putting your hand on your chest, tilting your head and shaking it like "wow... I'm in awe of this underarms turn" whilst doing an underarm turn just doesn't fit. And that's not a bad thing. People just have to learn to express themselves differently (me as well).
I Love hip hop (violent old stuff mostly) but I hate rap (even in Spanish) in a salsa/timba song. So it takes me out of the mood at a salsa event to hear it. But I also hate old school xylophone Mambo for DANCING (NOT listening to).
 
LarsM said:
In an imaginary land where I DJ-ed Cuban only events, I'd probably play a fair bit of son (mostly faster so you could also dance casino to it)
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I do not understand why there's the assumption that songs for casino need to be fast. It really frustrates me. I do not like to take breaks, but I am forced because the songs in the 'cuban' rooms are too fast to dance to continuously.
 
1derpalm said:
To me the difference in timba(ton) vs Salsa dancing isn't a matter of de-slottifying. It has a different feel. Timna frequently (in Havana Anyways) uses Clave Guaguancó.
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isn't casino-style based predominantly on a son rhythm? or am I wrong in saying that?
interestingly, a lot of timba deviates from that or adds more syncopation on top of it with the addition of drum kits, and so on, while "Salsa" as we know it from Puerto Rico, New York, etc. tends to stay more faithful to the basic tumbao, Son clave etc.
 
@matty i think you're right

I imagine that it'd be easier for a casino dancer to dance salsa than it's for a salsa damcer to dance to timba. Timba isn't very known outside of Cuba, "Casino dancing scene" and some parts of Lima i think. Salsa everyone in the latinamerican communities know about at least and even non-salsa fans at least heard about the word salsa. Ok maybe the first one is too fast but the other ones at least

I hadn't heard about timba (apart from some Isaac Delgado songs) until i took classes but indeed there is something about that music that fits better to the dance Casino to than most salsa does. Also i feel like when i dance with linear dancers they are more into fast spins than i am used to and probably a lot of salsa fits that kind of dancing better.

Just out of curiosity; would any timba dancers have issues with these songs? I know i would love to dance casino to these songs but curious to hear from Timba purists


Anyway, i suppose this discussion about timba vs salsa rose out of different scenes being divided. I think it would be healthier if dancers learned to dance to any style rather than being purist about their own. I can't dance really well with LA style dancers so i'm gonna try to learn some.
 
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TikiTaka said:
@matty i think you're right

I imagine that it'd be easier for a casino dancer to dance salsa than it's for a salsa damcer to dance to timba. Timba isn't very known outside of Cuba, "Casino dancing scene" and some parts of Lima i think. Salsa everyone in the latinamerican communities know about at least and even non-salsa fans at least heard about the word salsa.

I hadn't heard about timba until i took classes but indeed there is something about thar music that fits better to the dance Casino to than most salsa. Also i feel like when i dance with linear dancers they are more into fast spins than i am used to and probably a lot of salsa fits that kind of dancing better.

Just out of curiosity; would any timba dancers have issues with these songs? I know i would love to dance casino to these songs but curious to hear from Timba purists


Anyway, i suppose this discussion about timba vs salsa rose out of different scenes being divided. I think it would be healthier if dancers learned to dance to any style rather than being purist about their own. I can't dance really well with LA style dancers so i'm gonna try to learn some.
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I would reject any dances while the first song is played, due to the excessively fast tempo.

2nd and 3rd songs I would enjoy. But I can't speak for others. Patternmonkeying to them would be strange to watch.
 
Mr Setenta said:
I would reject any dances while the first song is played, due to the excessively fast tempo.

2nd and 3rd songs I would enjoy. But I can't speak for others. Patternmonkeying to them would be strange to watch.
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Yea, i realized it's way too fast. Any timba of the same speed would be too fast aswell.
 
I do see many timba songs have the musicality that casino dancers interpret better. I am a linear dancer. I have no problem dancing with a casino dancer when timba or salsa is playing.

I love to improvise. There are so many salsa/timba reggaeton mixes. I also like it when someone hijacks the lead. It makes me react to her hijacked move. I can try to dance with a zouk dancer on zouk song without knowing zouk (mostly improvisation). It would not be a great zouk dance. But she would not walk out thinking it was a nondance or something boring/horrible.

Most people in my local scene dance some kind of sensual bachata on reggaeton. I guess a lot of sensual bachata moves came to bachata through reggaeton/zouk (brazil route?). They may have originated in other dances (even in tango)

I am not aware of formal couple's reggaeton dancing other than lento? When reggaeton is playing I dance whatever makes sense. Sometimes bachata, sometimes some body movements from tango.

I love chacha, but I have danced bachata on chacha because I felt like it or i was tired to dance chacha.

I think experienced dancers are more purist than me. Most ladies are open to experiment(a few complains), I usually have a great time when I break the norms. I am guessing many of you have done similar fusions/experiments/improvisations?
 
Mr Setenta said:
I do not understand why there's the assumption that songs for casino need to be fast. It really frustrates me. I do not like to take breaks, but I am forced because the songs in the 'cuban' rooms are too fast to dance to continuously.
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You misunderstand me - a fair amount of son cubano is very slow - slow enough that it's hard to dance casino (or salsa for that matter) to. I've never understood the need of some Cuban DJs to play a ton of super fast songs either. I stick to the same rule for music for casino dancers as I do for salsa dancers - between 160 and 200 BPM, most in the 180-195 range. Occasionally I play songs that are a bit slower or faster, but rarely. Like Nochecita, because it's so beautiful (though massively overplayed).

 
1derpalm said:
To me the difference in timba(ton) vs Salsa dancing isn't a matter of de-slottifying. It has a different feel. Timna frequently (in Havana Anyways) uses Clave Guaguancó. That in itself lends to the style, timing, flourishes and moves you do. Putting your hand on your chest, tilting your head and shaking it like "wow... I'm in awe of this underarms turn" whilst doing an underarm turn just doesn't fit. And that's not a bad thing. People just have to learn to express themselves differently (me as well).
I Love hip hop (violent old stuff mostly) but I hate rap (even in Spanish) in a salsa/timba song. So it takes me out of the mood at a salsa event to hear it. But I also hate old school xylophone Mambo for DANCING (NOT listening to).
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All of this except the last sentence (though I quickly get my fill of the xylophone...)! Exactly this! Dancing "classic" linear salsa to hardcore timba just feels...wrong.
 
Guys do these fall into the category Timbaton that you guys dislike? Not typical timba but it doesn't have the reggaeton beat either. One of the songs is called Timbaton
 
TikiTaka said:
when i dance with linear dancers they are more into fast spins than i am used to and probably a lot of salsa fits that kind of dancing better.
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I tend to disagree, I sense that there is a push for slower, smoother music from linear dancers. Quite a lot of Salsa dura, mambo does not fit neatly into that and so just doesn't get played, some of the Fania Allstars music, for example.
From what I have seen, the Colombians seem to dance to the widest variety of salsa music, all the way from Boleros, to Bomba, Plena, Pachanga, Timba , Dura, Romantica etc.. though there are some who say that they are less comfortable with the slower music, the Cali style, as taught in the academies, lends itself particularly to the faster more pachanga style music, anything with a strong campana, while linear dancers seem to be more about the midtempo (95bpm) tumbao, (guaguanco de salon etc.)

I don't know a huge amount of any of these dance styles but personally, id actually prefer to be a jack of all than a master of only 1, because i think the problem is the homogenization effect that happens when you have an audience who only dance one way.
 
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matty said:
I tend to disagree, I sense that there is a push for slower, smoother music from linear dancers. Quite a lot of Salsa dura, mambo does not fit neatly into that and so just doesn't get played, some of the Fania Allstars music, for example.
From what I have seen, the Colombians seem to dance to the widest variety of salsa music, though there are some who say that they are less comfortable with the slower music, the Cali style lends itself particularly to the faster more pachanga style music, anything with a strong campana, while linear dancers seem to be more about the midtempo (95bpm) tumbao

I don't know a lot of any of these styles but personally, id actually prefer to be a jack of all than a master of only 1
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What i mean by fast spins is not that the musis is fast or that they're always spinning.Alot of stuff in casino is more walking and turns rather than preps and spins.
 
TikiTaka said:
What i mean by fast spins is not that the musis is fast or that they're always spinning.Alot of stuff in casino is more walking and turns rather than preps and spins.
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Very true. Try doing a vacilala to almost any linear follow (whether good or not) with no casino knowledge and they just spin quickly and stand there looking confused. And its your fault as the leader lol.
On an aside I despise the sentence "I just follow". I talked to a SA girl who sh doesn't know Cuban or linear but a good leader should be able to make her dance it.
...
-__-
I guess being from the middle of south America, salsa is in her blood.
 
JKClyKSDxWh2PpqsJiHHX5bs8 said:
In my town and opinion, it’s not the problem that Cuban dancers want to dance to reggaeton, but that a handful of linear DJs play extremely flat, lifeless music – MIchael Jackson salsa covers, top 40 covers, old afrocuban jazz – very little hard-driving salsa and close to 0 timba that provides the energy to make casino/timba dancers move. I’m at a point where I have a hard time leaving the house, knowing full well that the music will be so badly chosen/mixed/balanced.
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Sounds familiar. If you appreciate salsa music then how you like to dance to it is irrelevant - 'DJs' like those described above are torture. Blame the promoters and/or the dancers who support such events despite or even because the music is so poor. (Assuming your descriptions are accurate.)

On saying that if the Afro-Cuban jazz is of a high standard and mixed with good real salsa music then it makes the mix better imo.
 
I realize that you should have to gauge your foll9w skills. But if they say "I just follow" and can't or don't know how to properly do vacilala when led, that is THEIR fault. It's the leafers fault for trying on someone who justvplain doesn't have the skill or knowledge I guess. I isually gave with a guapea or a paseala en frente first. If those don't go well then its linear or Cumbria.
 
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