Congratulations! Just out of interest, how do you become a certified salsa instructor? Is there an universal diploma to get or something?
Good luck with preparing classes and giving them!
"Qualified" to teach?
- Thread starter Liefebees
- Start date
Congratulations! Just out of interest, how do you become a certified salsa instructor? Is there an universal diploma to get or something?
Good luck with preparing classes and giving them!
Thank you! :cheers:
Thank you so much! There's not a universal diploma as far as I know, so you would have to find a program to certify you. I went through Edie's BBS program.Liefebees said:
londongirl
Son
You don't need to be certified to teach (salsa). You need to 1) be able to teach/coach (rare ability - you can't learn this in a day) 2) to be able to teach the right things ie good technique (also rare) 3) ideally be a very good dancer too (though you can be this and not be able to teach, as yes you can also teach well without being a very good dancer (rare again)).
I am an awesome painter, and am so tempted to set an internet course 'qualifying' people to teach painting - are you having some problems with colour composition or your basic brush work? no problem, only 1000 bucks and in a few hours I'll teach you all you need to know to teach others how to paint just like [strikethrough]me[/strikethrough] you.
You're right. But you know what's better? Having all three of these and having something to back it up saying so. Technically, you don't need a doctorate to perform surgery on someone. But tell that to a hospital and to your prospective patients.
Then do it. There's no reason to be snarky here.
londongirl
Son
So you have all 3? Great - I apologize. I'm just rather more than a bit surprised based on your initial post a few months ago or from this one here or this one.
Ture. However, lots of teachers in schools have degrees plus/or one year teaching qualifications (certificates) and years of experience - are they all great teachers? No. Qualifications are only as good as what they measure (and you also have to look carefully at the motivations of the people or organisation giving the qualification - especially so when people are offering qualifications online).
You think it's ok for me to sell pieces of paper (sorry, qualifying "certificates") to anyone that will pay me 300 dollars for 8 hours of online 'training' in teaching painting, where I'm not going to make any effort to even verify they can draw a circle? Seriously not cool.
As someone who is still struggle to correct faults ingrained by learning initially from someone who was not a great teacher despite 'having a certificate', I hope you understand that I get a bit upset at the idea of people that have no business teaching going out and setting themselves up as teachers.
I also posted because you said something that wasn't true and might give people the wrong idea:
olamalam
Son Montuno
I don't understand why people are so against for less qualified, less experienced people's teaching salsa. Even a beginner should be able to teach if s/he likes. I know I know, now people will say that: but but you'll cause so many bad habits in your students dancing. So what? Everyone is responsible with his/her own development and they are free to select teachers no matter the subject is.
And I don't understand why this doesn't happen to performers for instance. Even if sometimes performancers are not qualified enough, everybody supports them (which is a good thing).
Seriously, honestly, you should do that! Even if you think it's not worth paying that much money for your papers, some people might think that they worth and they can pay you that money! If there are those people, go for it!
It's not fraud or something. You might sell some goods or service and you can appraise a value for it. People are free to buy.
Besides, I think all those certificates are nothing but a piece of paper for me. As an IT professional, I know that IT related certificates don't prove that you're a qualified s.p.e.c.i.a.l.i.s.t. I wouldn't hire anyone based on certificates. Even while reading CV's, I skip "certificates" part.
And I don't understand why this doesn't happen to performers for instance. Even if sometimes performancers are not qualified enough, everybody supports them (which is a good thing).
You think it's ok for me to sell pieces of paper (sorry, qualifying "certificates") to anyone that will pay me 300 dollars for 8 hours of online 'training' in teaching painting, where I'm not going to make any effort to even verify they can draw a circle? Seriously not cool.
Seriously, honestly, you should do that! Even if you think it's not worth paying that much money for your papers, some people might think that they worth and they can pay you that money! If there are those people, go for it!
It's not fraud or something. You might sell some goods or service and you can appraise a value for it. People are free to buy.
Besides, I think all those certificates are nothing but a piece of paper for me. As an IT professional, I know that IT related certificates don't prove that you're a qualified s.p.e.c.i.a.l.i.s.t. I wouldn't hire anyone based on certificates. Even while reading CV's, I skip "certificates" part.
londongirl
Son
Sure, if they like, of course anyone anywhere can start teaching whatever their ability in anything. But you really think that everyone out there teaching salsa should be teaching?
The problem is when you're starting learning you don't necessarily know what is and isn't 'good habits', so how can you be responsible for your own development? Some people can spend years not realising they are learning crap. And sadly students often find, and are often dazzled by, the person with amazing marketing skills (and 'certificates') rather than the great teacher who doesn't really know how to market themselves.
Maybe you don't care that, for example, perhaps you would've been a better dancer by now if someone had taught you great stepping technique from day one, maybe you don't mind only adding this skill now - that's cool, everyone is different. All I know is that I wish more than anything my first teacher had been great at teaching me great basic techniques. Sure, now I can judge someone's teaching ability, and decide what exactly I will or won't take from their teaching, but I couldn't have done that as a beginner.
Sure - but that's just entertainment - and it's free. No one would actually pay serious money to see a night full of bad performance teams (other than their friends). And anyway, they are usually billed as student teams, semi-pro or whatever - it's not like student team X is printing off a certificate saying they are world class pros.
LOL. The internet makes me sad sometimes...
olamalam
Son Montuno
There are even some schools should be closed!
Simple. My first post to SF was something like that:
I got really good suggestions, I contacted them before I moved and started attending their classes from day 1.
(TMA suggested Irene Miguel and with the help of her, like a chain reaction, I've built a network with other on2 people in London which brought me to Boston in the end! This is why I love her so much!)
I've spent first 5-6 months of my salsa life in Istanbul and I've been attending to the most popular salsa schools classes. Apperantly, they weren't the best salsa school that I could choose. They served me in some aspects but couldn't in some aspects (like basic step or timing). I was aware of their weaknesses but I preferred to go to a school where I can practice as much as possible. (salsa schools in istanbul have practice sessions once a week for 2-5 hours that you can practice with other students in their studio. I was able to dance with tons of girls for 5 hours per week, this is how I could jump into social dancing so quickly)
I could convince my brother to start salsa last year and I suggested him another salsa school in istanbul. You know what, he didn't listen to me and went my ex school!
My issue in my current scene is that the excellent, quality dancer/instructors we have here simply lend their names to the schools and have their more experienced students teach the courses. They themselves run occasional special workshops or offer performance coaching. I seriously want to improve with NY style, but do I want to go to a class where those instructing are the same level as me? No.
londongirl
Son
You’re right.
I’ve never met you and shouldn’t judge you based on your posts here, and you don’t have to prove yourself to me or anyone. (And as you say, you are focused on improving yourself which is more than can be said for many teachers.)
And yes, I shouldn’t judge an instructor course I haven’t been on either.
In general I believe that
i) qualifications don’t always equal ability to do something
ii) that there are too many people teaching salsa (and other things) that have no business doing so, and it's a real shame for their students
iii) there are people teaching salsa with qualifications from expert bodies/organisations that are not great teachers
But you’re right, I shouldn’t project that experience onto you without knowing you.
I apologize 100%
I’ve never met you and shouldn’t judge you based on your posts here, and you don’t have to prove yourself to me or anyone. (And as you say, you are focused on improving yourself which is more than can be said for many teachers.)
And yes, I shouldn’t judge an instructor course I haven’t been on either.
In general I believe that
i) qualifications don’t always equal ability to do something
ii) that there are too many people teaching salsa (and other things) that have no business doing so, and it's a real shame for their students
iii) there are people teaching salsa with qualifications from expert bodies/organisations that are not great teachers
But you’re right, I shouldn’t project that experience onto you without knowing you.
I apologize 100%
I believe that beginners need to be taught by the most experienced and better instructors. That I think is true for any subject.
Judging from the history of posts here and also having watched a few people with vastly less experience teaching, I think it does a great disservice to development of most beginner's ability to dance. Fortunately there is no harm done to anyone when someone dances poorly as a result of poor instruction quality. Hence it is easy to be laissez faire about who is teaching whom. And may be something is better than nothing.
Having said that any 'certification' regarding teaching salsa needs to be looked upon suspiciously, even if it is from the best salsa school in the world.
Judging from the history of posts here and also having watched a few people with vastly less experience teaching, I think it does a great disservice to development of most beginner's ability to dance. Fortunately there is no harm done to anyone when someone dances poorly as a result of poor instruction quality. Hence it is easy to be laissez faire about who is teaching whom. And may be something is better than nothing.
Having said that any 'certification' regarding teaching salsa needs to be looked upon suspiciously, even if it is from the best salsa school in the world.
Because the word "teaching" has certain implications, expectations and respectability associated with it. If anyone can start teaching then calling them "teachers" is insulting to those who do actually have experience and knowledge to teach. If you are showing someone what to do or helping others to dance it is one thing. When you claim you are "teaching" then there are certain expectations - not only about your knowledge and experience but also depth of your understanding of the subject matter, to put things in context, to spot problems and know how to fix them, etc.
So stop trivializing what 'teaching' should really be, by claiming that even a beginner should be able to teach. Sure, I should be able to design a bridge or treat someone for cancer, because I read enough. Now just because salsa doesn't kill anyone doesn't mean at least those of us who know should devalue it as an art form.
I think it is even a bigger disservice to mislead unsuspecting beginners and then saying they are responsible for their own development and free to select teachers. Sure they will when they know and realize it. But then there is such a thing called opportunity cost.
I am sure there are many people on this board who have been approached by someone to teach them but have instead pointed them in direction of right instructors.
That argument is like saying "I don't understand why this doesn't happen to salsa students for instance. Even if sometimes salsa students are not qualified to learn, no one objects".
Honestly, are you just making arguments for arguments sake ?
Apology accepted
and I wholly agree with you. That list there describes the majority of my professors here at school haha.
olamalam
Son Montuno
@Offbeat
It's nothing to do with argument sake, careful members will remember that I've always supported the idea that anyone should be able to teach if they like.
And you can design a bridge of course. In that case, your customer will be government. If they buy your designs, then it's fine.
I've always taught some stuff while learning. Math in high school (once one of my students who was also my classmate got higher mark than me. I was proud of him), java in university, cooking, preparing sangria (yes, as a non spanish! how dare I am!), several sports, chess, turkish/turkish history to foreigners (even if history was one of my worst class) and of course salsa. I started teaching salsa 2 months after I started attending classes. At first it was limited to basic step and right turn. Now I still see some of my students dancing around and some of them became very good dancers. last weekend in stars of salsa, I attended to the same workshop with one of them. She was one of the best followers in the class. Yeah I know, bad habits bad habits. She wouldnt be dancing at all if I didnt meet her.
That's why I'm saying that anyone can teach whatever they know if they want.
Besides, as I've quoted my first SF post above, I've asked people which instructors would be most suitable for my skill set and style. Then I attended those classes. But some other people might think like: well, this is a cute guy and he is offering me free salsa class. lets go for it!
I don't know how simpler I can explain my point. I hope you get it.
It's nothing to do with argument sake, careful members will remember that I've always supported the idea that anyone should be able to teach if they like.
And you can design a bridge of course. In that case, your customer will be government. If they buy your designs, then it's fine.
I've always taught some stuff while learning. Math in high school (once one of my students who was also my classmate got higher mark than me. I was proud of him), java in university, cooking, preparing sangria (yes, as a non spanish! how dare I am!), several sports, chess, turkish/turkish history to foreigners (even if history was one of my worst class) and of course salsa. I started teaching salsa 2 months after I started attending classes. At first it was limited to basic step and right turn. Now I still see some of my students dancing around and some of them became very good dancers. last weekend in stars of salsa, I attended to the same workshop with one of them. She was one of the best followers in the class. Yeah I know, bad habits bad habits. She wouldnt be dancing at all if I didnt meet her.
That's why I'm saying that anyone can teach whatever they know if they want.
Besides, as I've quoted my first SF post above, I've asked people which instructors would be most suitable for my skill set and style. Then I attended those classes. But some other people might think like: well, this is a cute guy and he is offering me free salsa class. lets go for it!
I don't know how simpler I can explain my point. I hope you get it.
wildbill20056
Son Montuno
I think it's a matter of formality.
It's clearly fun and healthy for people to share what they learn.
However I think it's a different idea to set yourself up as an Instructor.
In the former setting you have no expectactions of mastery of either dance or dance instruction. You are just hanging out and sharing.
In the latter you are portraying yourself as someone with sufficient skill in both dance and instrution to be able to give them a professional level of instruction.
Coaching someone in school, is not the same as setting yourself up as a tutor for hire or teacher. It is simply offering to share what you know.
Thus if you are operating informally, and just sharing (and definitely not taking money) then cool.
If the latter then I expect, nay demand, that you are qualified (and I certainly don't mean on paper neccessarily) to do so. I expect you to be able to correct posture, hand position, tension, foot positioning, foot placement, leading and following, spin technique, break down musical structure, impart knowledge of music and dance roots, and so very much more.
This ability to do so is entirely based upon good experience, good instruction and good practice. There is absolutely no way you can go from Beginner to Instructor in a matter of months, not legitimately, if we are honest with ourselves.
So go out and SHARE SALSA! Vamos!
But don't tell anyone you're an instructor for hire until you have equipped yourself with all the tools for the job, including those that require years of immersion.
(Caveat, by all means become a class helper, or assistant. In this way you can semi formalise your position, benefit from guidance from an experienced instruction, and share your knowledge in a more organised way.)
It's clearly fun and healthy for people to share what they learn.
However I think it's a different idea to set yourself up as an Instructor.
In the former setting you have no expectactions of mastery of either dance or dance instruction. You are just hanging out and sharing.
In the latter you are portraying yourself as someone with sufficient skill in both dance and instrution to be able to give them a professional level of instruction.
Coaching someone in school, is not the same as setting yourself up as a tutor for hire or teacher. It is simply offering to share what you know.
Thus if you are operating informally, and just sharing (and definitely not taking money) then cool.
If the latter then I expect, nay demand, that you are qualified (and I certainly don't mean on paper neccessarily) to do so. I expect you to be able to correct posture, hand position, tension, foot positioning, foot placement, leading and following, spin technique, break down musical structure, impart knowledge of music and dance roots, and so very much more.
This ability to do so is entirely based upon good experience, good instruction and good practice. There is absolutely no way you can go from Beginner to Instructor in a matter of months, not legitimately, if we are honest with ourselves.
So go out and SHARE SALSA! Vamos!
But don't tell anyone you're an instructor for hire until you have equipped yourself with all the tools for the job, including those that require years of immersion.
(Caveat, by all means become a class helper, or assistant. In this way you can semi formalise your position, benefit from guidance from an experienced instruction, and share your knowledge in a more organised way.)
azzey
Son Montuno
Good post. Btw, you forgot more fundamental things like basic steps, weight transfer, timing, cuban motion etc. :razz:
There's also something to say for value for money, which is relative to the quality of local instruction that you're competing with.
Apart from the technical aspects some instructors are very good with people/communication skills, so even though they may not be the best in technically breaking down things their other skills make up for it. Of course, they still need to be a good enough dancer in that case and to avoid pit-falls of giving incorrect instruction at a minimum.
olamalam
Son Montuno
@wildbill,
Even if we haven't used the same terminology, we're on the same page regarding "sharing salsa" thing.
Regarding instructors,
wildbill and azzey defined how should a salsa instructor be for them, thanks. I hope instructors in Scotland are like in their definitions. Unfortunately not many of the instructors in London are like that.
Do they have to be? No!
The point we're sometimes missing is, as members of this forum, we're bunch of people who take salsa seriously and try to get good at it. But there are tons of people outside who doesn't care it. For many people, basic step and some salsa moves is enough. Cuban motion? Hell no!
There will always be relatively worse dancers and some instructors to serve them. And that is fine.
Or, are you guys favouring certification? Maybe there should be international organisations to decide whom are eligible to teach salsa? So, I believe also salsa schools should give a certificate, for the people who are eligible to dance salsa! :lol:
Even if we haven't used the same terminology, we're on the same page regarding "sharing salsa" thing.
Regarding instructors,
wildbill and azzey defined how should a salsa instructor be for them, thanks. I hope instructors in Scotland are like in their definitions. Unfortunately not many of the instructors in London are like that.
Do they have to be? No!
The point we're sometimes missing is, as members of this forum, we're bunch of people who take salsa seriously and try to get good at it. But there are tons of people outside who doesn't care it. For many people, basic step and some salsa moves is enough. Cuban motion? Hell no!
There will always be relatively worse dancers and some instructors to serve them. And that is fine.
Or, are you guys favouring certification? Maybe there should be international organisations to decide whom are eligible to teach salsa? So, I believe also salsa schools should give a certificate, for the people who are eligible to dance salsa! :lol:
Fully agree with everything said ! You worded it a lot better!
