"Qualified" to teach?
- Thread starter Liefebees
- Start date
Regarding instructors,
wildbill and azzey defined how should a salsa instructor be for them, thanks. I hope instructors in Scotland are like in their definitions. Unfortunately not many of the instructors in London are like that.
Do they have to be? No!
The point we're sometimes missing is, as members of this forum, we're bunch of people who take salsa seriously and try to get good at it. But there are tons of people outside who doesn't care it. For many people, basic step and some salsa moves is enough. Cuban motion? Hell no!
There will always be relatively worse dancers and some instructors to serve them. And that is fine.
Again not sure what point you are trying to make.
There are more people in my local scene alone (compared to regulars on the forums) who take salsa way too seriously than anyone here and want to be better. As there would be in your scene or any other. They all, in their own ways spent time, money and sweat to do so. Therefore whether someone on this board or outside, is serious or not is irrelevant to the central argument, of what Wildbill so eloquently put forth.
Best instructors can have some students who turn out to be mediocre dancers and mediocre instructor can have students who are very good dancers. People's dancing skills are on a range of spectrum depending on natural talent and ability to absorb/learn from others (not necessarily instructors but by say watching better dancers). Again not very relevant. A good teacher however will help a student progress far more and further than an inexperienced or poor one. Having two left feet doesn't mean they deserve mediocre instructors!
Quality of instruction - Again, I may be able to teach one or two particular things very well, doesn't mean I can teach or am good at it. As stated before a good quality of instruction is one that covers a gamut of aspects that are essential in making someone a good dancer. And different students would need focus in different areas depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
londongirl
Son
But there are tons of people outside who doesn't care it. For many people, basic step and some salsa moves is enough. Cuban motion? Hell no!
You just described my first salsa instructor. I was total beginner, didn't know any better, I thought this was all there was to know about salsa. It wasn't that I didn't care, I just didn't know, it never occurred to me to even look salsa up on the internet because my instructor was a certified and I thought this teacher will teach me all I need to know.
Move away. Realise I can't dance at all. Have to relearn from scratch, undo bad habits. This is really hard - still working on it.
People who do not have sufficient experience and ability to teach should not be teaching - period. Share some stuff with friends or the cute girl on the side of the dance floor sure, even assist in class (though I hate this, when one of the pair is very good - usually the guy, and the girl is sometimes not even my level) - just don't pretend you are a professional just because you have a piece of paper and a few days of training.
I don't believe you can just put 100% of the responsibility onto the end user for ensuring the teacher, bridge or whatever they are buying is of sufficient quality. Especially if the teacher, bridge builder or whoever is claiming to be qualified - qualifications are meant to act as a guide for the user, if someone has one I expect it to mean something.
Of course, I expect the professional body awarding structural engineering post-graduate qualifications is holding it's students to a much higher standard than any body/organisation offering salsa teaching 'qualifications'.
But this creates the problem - as a result most people are used to qualifications meaning something and being difficult to obtain ie there is an entry standard and some people will fail. As a total newbie to salsa, I would expect a salsa qualification to be awarded only to those at the very top of the salsa field, to not be easy to get and so on. And clearly that is not the case - because anyone can set themselves up to give out salsa qualifications and anyone can hand over their money and get one!
olamalam
Son Montuno
I did and hence!
No, you didn't. Or you're pretending like you didn't. I'll reply to your other post shortly.
But if I notice that you're pretending like you didn't understand, I'll stop spending my time with your posts
Oh boy! Talk about being a killjoy..
I'll stop spending my time with your posts
..and being a crybaby
P.S. - Lousy government doing a lousy job of buying my lousy bridge is not fine, because the rest have to drive over it.
olamalam
Son Montuno
Lousy public elects lousy government and if the government does lousy job, public shoud face it. it's fine.
But your government wont buy your designs. So there's no danger designing your own bridges. If you have a big enough garden, you can use your designs for your own pleasure.
Similary, as you stated before, if you claim that you can cure cancer and some patients come to you instead of public hospitals, it's fine too. Not everyone has to recover from cancer.
Same applies for salsa.
Then in some cities, there wouldn't be any salsa at all. For instance, in my home town (tekirdag. check google map, it's a very small city compared to istanbul). When I go to my home town in holidays, I can find some people to dance with and I'm very happy for that. There are 2-3 instructors to teach salsa. I saw their class videos on youtube and I said OMG! But at least I'm happy that they are teaching salsa there and we have some salsa parties as a result.
Especially for teaching, you don't have any other option! Whatever the subject is, always end users (students) are responsible for their own development. it always has been like this. If they can't enter a good university, they go to worse universities and (may or may not) become worse professionals. Or they can attend some privates on any subject according to their opportunities and budget (free classes/cheap classes/expensive classes), and quality of the instruction varies. This always has been the case and always will be.
@moderators,
I beg you seperate this thread :tongue:
londongirl
Son
OKay - agree, where there are no better teachers, something is better than nothing.
Qualifications are supposed to remove the need for every single person to validate someone's expertise. He has PhD from Cambridge in Engineering, ok I don't need to examen him myself to ensure he has the right knowledge.
olamalam
Son Montuno
I said: "The point we're sometimes missing is, as members of this forum, we're bunch of people who take salsa seriously and try to get good at it. But there are tons of people outside who doesn't care it."
Azana, Does that mean all of the people who are not members of SF are not taking salsa seriously?
I said, "anybody can teach whatever they know, if they want."
Azana, does that mean that inexperienced teachers can help a student progress as good as experienced teachers?
I said, "there are many people outside who doesn't care about proper instruction and proper instructors."
Azana, does that mean that untalented people should go to average instructors?
I said, "There aren't many instructors in London to cover those aspects in their classes." (Please note that London salsa scene's level is higher than any other major EU cities.)
Azana, does that mean that you don't need to learn those aspects to become a good dancer? Or, does that mean that you can be a good teacher without teaching all of those?
olamalam
Son Montuno
No. There should alway be worse teachers to have better teachers.
It's not only valid for Tekirdag but also for New York!
Glanced through a bit of this and decided I don't really care
I just want as many people in the world as possible to experience the joy of dancing - whether they do it well or badly is irrelevant. If they want to do it well they will soon realise they need to seek better teaching.
It's a free, unlegislated market. If one person is willing to pay another person then fine. This happens in all areas of life and generally people only end up doing well long term if the service they offer proves to be good.
Regarding qualification, sadly from the salsa 'teachers' I know this seems to only hold part of the puzzle of being a good teacher and the rest of it is more innate plus experience. However, it can never be a bad thing in itself so good on you Crow and best wishes on developing all the other skills for being a great teacher.
I just want as many people in the world as possible to experience the joy of dancing - whether they do it well or badly is irrelevant. If they want to do it well they will soon realise they need to seek better teaching.
It's a free, unlegislated market. If one person is willing to pay another person then fine. This happens in all areas of life and generally people only end up doing well long term if the service they offer proves to be good.
Regarding qualification, sadly from the salsa 'teachers' I know this seems to only hold part of the puzzle of being a good teacher and the rest of it is more innate plus experience. However, it can never be a bad thing in itself so good on you Crow and best wishes on developing all the other skills for being a great teacher.
olamalam
Son Montuno
Glanced through a bit of this and decided I don't really care
I just want as many people in the world as possible to experience the joy of dancing - whether they do it well or badly is irrelevant. If they want to do it well they will soon realise they need to seek better teaching.
It's a free, unlegislated market. If one person is willing to pay another person then fine. This happens in all areas of life and generally people only end up doing well long term if the service they offer proves to be good.
Regarding qualification, sadly from the salsa 'teachers' I know this seems to only hold part of the puzzle of being a good teacher and the rest of it is more innate plus experience. However, it can never be a bad thing in itself so good on you Crow and best wishes on developing all the other skills for being a great teacher.
Ohh I'm so glad to read this.
azzey
Son Montuno
I have a balanced view, this means that I both agree with you and Bill. Depends on the situation really. I don't think you've had enough negative experiences yet to go with the positive ones and gain a balanced view. You've been living in London too long to have that wider perspective. In London you can find anything you want.
For example, you are happy now to go to your city because you can dance with girls. I agree, some Salsa is better than no salsa. You will be a much better dancer than locals so you can show off etc. That's a holiday situation not a permanent one.
If they then tell you "I don't dance your style" when you're doing their style, but much better than their instructors. When they have all kinds of annoying habits that make it really hard to have an enjoyable dance with them, you can't correct them because that would be rude, you can't correct their teachers because that would be rude ; Bad dancers often can fit together better with other bad dancers (than with you) if they've been taught by the same bad teachers.
If you're living there then you have a few choices. a) teach and deal with all the Salsa politics inherent when there is such disparity between styles. b) train selected girls yourself and just dance with them. c) go dancing locally but to congresses for your real dance fix. d) Just be social and let your dance level dwindle over time because of lack of good practice. e) Dance mainly with your girlfriend and be labelled a Salsa snob.
I already know which you will choose because we have discussed it and I seem to remember you will be in a bigger city (Istanbul) than your home town so things won't be quite so pronounced.
At the end of the day, life is what you make of it. You have been lucky though to be able to go and learn in a bigger scene with better opportunities and then take that back.
azzey
Son Montuno
I'm with you there.
Unfortunately often this is not the case. The "unconscious incompetence" stage can be a permanent thing. The "I don't know I have a problem and even if I did I wouldn't know how to fix it" situation gets so ingrained for some, often due to that initial poor teaching. Sad. Not everyone wants to be a Salsa star in their own scene but they should at least have the joy to dance on time and lead/follow at some point during their years of going to socials. To say nothing about dancing to the music.
azzey
Son Montuno
Glanced through a bit of this and decided I don't really care
I just want as many people in the world as possible to experience the joy of dancing - whether they do it well or badly is irrelevant.
Kindly leave the board now, you're no longer a 'real' Salsera. :razz: Or to atone I will expect you to go out and dance with every bad leader possible (and no sneaky avoiding eye contact so only the good leaders ask you) and report back what a great night you had.
azzey
Son Montuno
I watched a video of dancing at a social for your city and it wasn't that bad. You haven't seen or experienced OMG bad. :tongue:
olamalam
Son Montuno
Kindly leave the board now, you're no longer a 'real' Salsera. :razz: Or to atone I will expect you to go out and dance with every bad leader possible (and no sneaky avoiding eye contact so only the good leaders ask you) and report back what a great night you had.
she's going to el grande and salsa fusion! I think she's doing her best :lol:
olamalam
Son Montuno
Have you seen this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrz4FZ1Db6k&feature=autoplay&list=ULsXpbX51SzfI&lf=mfu_in_order&playnext=1
I should upload new video's when I go there. The party I've been was better than this.
azzey
Son Montuno
Yeah, that's the one I watched. Like I said, you've haven't experienced BAD yet. :lol: That would be considered good for some cities in UK I know about. Hell, I've met teachers who dance like that. I'm not going to name and shame.
Kindly leave the board now, you're no longer a 'real' Salsera. :razz: Or to atone I will expect you to go out and dance with every bad leader possible (and no sneaky avoiding eye contact so only the good leaders ask you) and report back what a great night you had.
Lol I didn't say I wished to dance with them - they can dance with their own kind