Musicality

[Kycol]

I am a dance instructor in Darwin that is introducing her students to Musicality.

We have done stopping movement on the breaks, matching patterns and shines to various styles, sounds and tempos within the music. EW have even practiced building a dance from start to finish depending on the style of the introduction, the versus, chorus and how it ends. However something is still missing. I can't see any SABOR oozing from my students and I have been trying to figure out why.

I have been listening to my students and one of the questions I get asked most of all is what step or movement can you do when catching a break or accenting an instrument or vocal. My students complain that they just don't know what to do to with their bodies when hitting a break or trying to accent an instrument or lyric. To me this comes very natually as I have danced all my life and I can show them in class what I would do but this doesn't always match the personality of each of the students.

I think this is a very valid question for someone with little dance experience outside of Salsa. It is one thing to be shown what you can do but unless you enjoy that movement, the student is likely to do nothing.

Can anyone suggest what they do in their classes to get studets improvising with movement and finding their own SABOR. Should I be introducing some Jazz or Hip Hop into my classes to give them fodder for creativity for musicality. I would love to know what other instructors try.

 

[chrisk]

Welcomt to SF, Kycol!

I can't see any SABOR oozing from my students and I have been trying to figure out why.
[...]
My students complain that they just don't know what to do to with their bodies when hitting a break or trying to accent an instrument or lyric.

First, I don't think that you can teach sabor, but that sabor rather comes from finding your own style that matches your personality and the music that you just dance to. So while it's great that you already teach them about the tools, ie. moves to hit a break or to end a song, I think it ultimately comes to down to having your students try out these moves or any other that come to their mind, when social dancing.

Can anyone suggest what they do in their classes to get studets improvising with movement and finding their own SABOR. Should I be introducing some Jazz or Hip Hop into my classes to give them fodder for creativity for musicality. I would love to know what other instructors try.

Well, we've been talking here a lot about musicality before, so I'ld like to point you to some of the threads, that might give you helpful information:

Musicality and "Mickey Mousing"
Learning musicality
The challenge of musicality
How to teach musicality
How to fit things to music/musicality
"Just FEEL the music"

 

[John S2]

I can show them in class what I would do but this doesn't always match the personality of each of the students.

I think this is a very valid question for someone with little dance experience outside of Salsa. It is one thing to be shown what you can do but unless you enjoy that movement, the student is likely to do nothing.

The answer to your question about why your students may not be dancing with sabor lies within the part of your post I have quoted. If a teaching method conflicts with the personality of some students then it is likely to make them unhappy, and they will probably dance in a wooden fashion or even opt out altogether.
Introducing hip-hop would most likely alienate some students.
I would recommend allocating part of the class time to dancing a set of moves with which the class is familiar to a cracking 'real salsa' tune, with frequent rotation of partners. This is the part of my classes that my students tend to particularly enjoy. Not every student will express themselves in the same way, but that is because they have different personalities.

 

[sweavo]

It strikes me that the questions they are asking come from a lack of breadth in their dance and music experience. The usual route into salsa does not teach you to dance, it teaches you steps.

I'm starting to believe the apparently paradoxical view that to get people to express sabor you must teach them technique. This is taking the view that "technique removes the body's obstruction to the heart's expression". Separate the idea of class and social, and use class to drill technique. Not moves, technique.

Teach them line, teach them weight transfer, teach them isolation, teach them active listening. This will break them of the patternmonkey way of thinking. Teach them to "do or do not", i.e. to avoid moving hesitantly, preferring an actual movement or complete stillness. That will create dancers who, whatever they are doing, will look comfortable doing it.

Then inspire them to connect body movements to what they hear in the music.

 

[azzey]

Agree with what the others said.

There are just four things that stop people from being musical dancers:

1-Wanting to do IT, whatever IT is.

They need to see a dancer do something they want to copy. The way for people to learn these things usually is by watching good musical dancers who they like/admire (in person or on video) and then experimenting on their own, copying something they saw and liked.

2-Knowing how to do IT.

That's where classes can help because they can work on things in slow motion. e.g. throwing up and away the right hand on a trumpet or cymbal sound.

3-Knowing when to do IT.

They need to listen to lots of music (to be able to hear the same thing you do), be able to synchronise the movement with the music and still stay on time. Eventually learning to predict and prepare for what comes next in the music.

4-Put enough practice in to do IT, whenever they want.

More specifically: How to fit things to music/musicality

So, you've covered some of 2 and 3. 1 and 4 is up to them, you can only inspire them and give them the opportunity. e.g. giving them names of top dancers they can watch on YouTube, or organising a Congress trip.

The thing is if someone is still challenged by basic technique/fundamentals then a lot of their mental focus is going to be taken up by leading/following/stepping/connection etc. You need to be free to focus on the music or to prioritise it over other things.

A beginner dancer can learn to do a few musical things by dancing with musical dancers, but not if they're always distracted.

I have been listening to my students and one of the questions I get asked most of all is what step or movement can you do when catching a break or accenting an instrument or vocal.

Almost any movement they like, that they think fits with the music at that time. It's a personal thing. It won't look out of place as long as the movement in some way matches the change in the music. e.g. not being too loud a movement for the note that is playing at the time.

You can adapt almost any series of steps to fit a particular selection of notes. See mickey mousing.

Now if you asked me what are the common things done in a particular style of dancing to look authentic, well that's different..

e.g. In LA style you might step downwards on a back or forward break. If the break is silent, you'd stop completely until the music starts again.

Search for the Nuno and Vanda musicality workshop clip on YouTube, that's a nice one for the breaks (from memory).

 

[azzey]

However something is still missing. I can't see any SABOR oozing from my students and I have been trying to figure out why.

Personally I don't believe Sabor is a technical thing. It's an expression of a feeling. The joy you feel for the music in your heart and soul personified in self expression and movement.

You can have Sabor while being a beginner or knowing and doing just the basic steps, smiling and enjoying dancing to the music and with your partner.

In some way classes can be a way for someone to gain an opportunity to express a feeling they already had but don't know how to show or it can be a hinderance if they are distracted from expressing the feeling inside.

Having both Sabor and technique will make you a better dancer though.

 

[azzey]

Can anyone suggest what they do in their classes to get studets improvising with movement and finding their own SABOR.

Teach them connection with the floor, connection with their partner and basic connection with the music (e.g. move to the rhythm, not just the timing) using just the basic steps or varations of the basics. e.g. forward-back basic in closed hold. RnB salsa is a good one for demonstrating this because it's quite funky.

It doesn't require fancy moves to show feeling for the music, your partner and the dance.

Getting them to learn more and more technical things before they show their feeling for the music IMO is just crazy and disabling (putting another block in the way).

- Ask them which tracks they like the most. Get them to bring in the music and play short bits of it during the musicality class.
- Ask them which partners they enojoy dancing with the most. Ask them why.
- Ask them which professional dancers they enjoy watching/admire and particularly ones that are musical. If they don't know any, then suggest some names for them (e.g. Magna) to go away and watch on YouTube, then come back next week and report back.
- Get them to do a simple basic or move to a section of music (this gives them a place to start) and then get them to make up the next bit (from what they know already) to the next bit of music. This can be done either in partner hold or by seperating and facing each other. Try to get the leader and follower to interact and play off each other.

Show them how they can do simple things to express themselves and enhance their dancing. e.g. how to do natural motion with the basics.

Should I be introducing some Jazz or Hip Hop into my classes to give them fodder for creativity for musicality. I would love to know what other instructors try.

No. Introducing more unfamiliar stuff they have to learn before they can become comfortable is NOT a good idea!

It's amazing how people can naturally dance to (unfamiliar) pop music on the dance floor and show sabor and then when they enter a Salsa lesson we tell them not to do this.

 

[sweavo]

Teach them connection with the floor, connection with their partner and basic connection with the music (e.g. move to the rhythm, not just the timing) using just the basic steps or varations of the basics. e.g. forward-back basic in closed hold. RnB salsa is a good one for demonstrating this because it's quite funky.

It doesn't require fancy moves to show feeling for the music, your partner and the dance.

I agree. When I say teach technique I certainly don't mean teach technical moves.

 

[chr]

Teach them line, teach them weight transfer, teach them isolation, teach them active listening. This will break them of the patternmonkey way of thinking. Teach them to "do or do not", i.e. to avoid moving hesitantly, preferring an actual movement or complete stillness. That will create dancers who, whatever they are doing, will look comfortable doing it.

This would be ideal and the by far the best for the student.

However, when I recall my early days of dancing, instructions like that just conflicted with my urge to learn quickly applicable stuff on the dance floor. I thought that proper techniques are too subtle to really matter. It was blindness, but I think it is very hard to convince most people who danced for a few months, how much basic understanding they are missing. You need a perspective first to see your own defects and feel an urge to improve.

Therefore, although I agree with you 100%, I think it is very hard to put your theory in practice.

 

[Ninka]

Hey Kycol, I'm new to the forums as well, and this is a great thread to start contributing...

I completely agree with swaevo's answer. But to add one thing: hitting the breaks is all about improvisation and quick reaction without thinking, applying technique in real time. Now that is something that eventually comes natural with experience and practice, but students can get a little help from a teacher here. You can shorten their learning curve by teaching them how to improvise. Don't teach them what they should do or how you would do it, but teach them to decide for themselves, instead of answering every question. Let them "find" the moves rather then spoonfeed them everything.

Give them a toolkit of very basic moves/isolations and then give them some time to put things together on their own. Give them different moves that fit different dynamics/moods of the music, then give them music and let them decide for themselves which move to do when. Give them a songs with lots of breaks and different moods and let them social dance, then stop the music at the breaks and let them analyse what they could have done with that break, according to where they were in a move/pattern.
This only works of course if the students already are beyond beginner level and have at least a basic understanding of salsa music and it's instruments...

It will take some time and probably push some people out of their comfort zone since they expect you to give them all the answers instead of deciding for themselves, but it will definetly help them to find their own style and way of expression. Essentially it's all about expression, which means to show yourself and how you feel to other people, and that is quite a scary thing for many people trying to "do things right", so give them time and a safe class environment to explore and experiment.

 

[azzey]

Essentially it's all about expression, which means to show yourself and how you feel to other people, and that is quite a scary thing for many people trying to "do things right", so give them time and a safe class environment to explore and experiment.

Very true. To have sabor and really express yourself I think you must give up the idea of what is right and go with how you feel instead.

This does not mean that you become an animal on the dancer floor though, just as you can have passion in a relationship you can also show self-control and grace. It's about connection with yourself (your feelings), your partner and the music. Expressing yourself honestly but with respect for your partners feelings also.

 

[Joy in Motion]

I am a dance instructor in Darwin that is introducing her students to Musicality.

We have done stopping movement on the breaks, matching patterns and shines to various styles, sounds and tempos within the music. EW have even practiced building a dance from start to finish depending on the style of the introduction, the versus, chorus and how it ends. However something is still missing. I can't see any SABOR oozing from my students and I have been trying to figure out why.

I have been listening to my students and one of the questions I get asked most of all is what step or movement can you do when catching a break or accenting an instrument or vocal. My students complain that they just don't know what to do to with their bodies when hitting a break or trying to accent an instrument or lyric. To me this comes very natually as I have danced all my life and I can show them in class what I would do but this doesn't always match the personality of each of the students.

I think this is a very valid question for someone with little dance experience outside of Salsa. It is one thing to be shown what you can do but unless you enjoy that movement, the student is likely to do nothing.

Can anyone suggest what they do in their classes to get studets improvising with movement and finding their own SABOR. Should I be introducing some Jazz or Hip Hop into my classes to give them fodder for creativity for musicality. I would love to know what other instructors try.

I don't disagree with the suggestions offered so far, but it kind of sounds like that is what you're doing already. So it seems like you are on the right track.

There are a couple of considerations here. How often do they dance socially? What is their level in comparison to the highest level in your local community? How often do they practice? How often do they listen to the music? How often do they watch really musical dancers? Dance and music are a language, and immersion is huge. The music and the movement have to really seep into your being in order for things to start coming out naturally, which is what sabor is all about. This requires immersion in terms of time and immersion in terms of inspiration. I agree that technique is important, but it should serve to inform and shape your natural style and improvisations, not determine them. It's definitely a delicate balance between knowledge and feeling.

 

[borikenSalsero]

I disagree with just about it all. I'd say sit them down, have them listen to a song then get them talking about what they feel. Once they are able to actually feel the music, they will move to it regardless of technique. Don't worry about how they look, but that they are expressing. All technique can give you is movement, not dance, to dance you gotta feel the music. And to feel the music, you gotta know what it is that you are feeling.

What I enjoy about "mom/dad" taught is that these cats don't know any formal technique, yet musicality is wonderful. The type of musicality that we often refer to here, is really structure, they want to dance to the structure of the music. I.E. I want to hit that break, I want to hit this high, that low.

To me, musicality is the ability to tell the story of the song, regardless of breaks, where everyone watching you, will be able to tell what's going on inside the song, not just the notes. Hence, why there are tons, and tons of dancers who are impeccable following the structure of the song, yet they haven't a speck of flavor in their dance.

If your students want to find themselves in the dance, then why in the world are they looking for technique. They must find themselves, then execute the technique. You are already teaching steps/technique. Now make them find themselves in the song. Get them bopping, get them moving their arms, such as free writing would. Soon enough those who are ready for sabor will be able to match what they feel to the technique.

Not long ago I read an interview about Larry Harlow where he said, "Man, I joined a band and thought I was gonna kill. Then when I played, applying all my classical technique, the band leader said: Kid, I'm going to have to fire you. You suck!." that's what folks miss, that isn't technique what they search for, but sabor." and sabor, once you give a person the ability to find it, takes off. We all know what's become of Larry Harlow since he figure it out.

 

[Latindancer006]

..... This is taking the view that "technique removes the body's obstruction to the heart's expression". Separate the idea of class and social, and use class to drill technique. Not moves, technique..

I don't know if you have a copyright on this quote, but I'm stealing it. :tongue:

 

[Latindancer006]

When I took up swing, I decided to take a different path to learning. I decided to join a team right away, not having much experience yet. I picked up the choreography quickly and the leading and following is easy for the most part. The choreo rocked! Awesome! But most of the time I feel alien to it compared to the others on the team who have been dancing swing for years. I certainly don't have the "sabor" of the dance. Feels like a mismatch of personality and dance. I think the OP is on the right path though, but acquiring sabor takes time and experience and a lot of listening to music.

 

[Latindancer006]

Technique is the proper way of doing something. It also implies that it's the most efficient way resulting in an aesthetically pleasing vision.

 

[crazygirl]

I'm of the belief that you need to learn the rules before you can play with them but to play you need to feel relaxed enough about your basics first.

I think it's about timing for each individual, so you can put some tools in their box but they will probably store them until they're ready. Kind of like it's pointless toilet training children until they are ready

 

[kbitten]

I am with boriken...

if you want to learn how to do a body roll that makes all the guys want to marry you, you need technique to do the moves..and practice them a lot..

but it you want to hit all the breaks in the music , FEEL the rhythym and dance like you know all songs, you need to go deep for the salsa MUSIC not technique..

 

[Melvin]

I agree with Boriken. Technique and musicality in the sense Boriken is talking about should be separated in a teaching situation.

I've often been to classes where the teacher is emphatically shouting something like "feeeel the music", while I'm struggling to remember where to put my feet. It's just distracting, there's no time to bother about getting any feeling into the dancing. It won't look good no matter how I "feel" if I'm off time or out of balance.

To get "sabor" you must actually feel something, and since dancing in a personal and musical way requires an extreme reaction speed, you can only use what is already in your muscle memory repertoire, familiar movements you can perform with speed and precision without being very conscious about what you're doing.

That's why you can see some beginners with sabor, and plenty of experienced dancers without it. You can do a lot with a little, and nothing with a lot.

If you don't get the emotional content of the music, and interpret it in a personal way, there is no way you're going to have sabor, no matter how good you are at hitting the breaks. Having the music explained, talking about it can help. Intellectual understanding can be a shortcut to emotional response.

I suspect OP is trying to teach above the level of her students, pushing them to do two very different things at the same time. An impossible task.

If you're teaching technique, and insist on students expressing genuine emotions, you tell them to go with what they already know, which is using familiar technique instead of the "proper" technique you want them to learn. There's a conflict, it's counter productive.

Teachers could do a lot for musicality just by caring and learning about the music they're playing, mentioning it briefly in class, respecting these skilled musicians, sparking some interest in their students. Unfortunately even those few teachers that actually know something about the music usually assume no one is interested.

 

[azzey]

I agree with Boriken. Technique and musicality in the sense Boriken is talking about should be separated in a teaching situation.

...

That's why you can see some beginners with sabor, and plenty of experienced dancers without it. You can do a lot with a little, and nothing with a lot.

...

I suspect OP is trying to teach above the level of her students, pushing them to do two very different things at the same time. An impossible task.

If you're teaching technique, and insist on students expressing genuine emotions, you tell them to go with what they already know, which is using familiar technique instead of the "proper" technique you want them to learn. There's a conflict, it's counter productive.

...

You hit the nail on the head. Particularly with the bits in bold.