Married and Dancing without Spouse

Why can't marriage and relationship be like salsa dancing (and not like music that plays for freaking 20 minutes). Be together for a brief period and then move on to the next person :D
 
Offbeat said:
Why can't marriage and relationship be like salsa dancing (and not like music that plays for freaking 20 minutes). Be together for a brief period and then move on to the next person :D
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But they can be, if that's what you want to make of them. Serial monogamy has become quite common.
 
Sabrosura said:
The biology of human attraction is very complex. It is a fascinating topic, especially to those of us who have an interest in evolutionary biology.
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I've also been interested in this lately, perhaps having to do with being single again after a long marriage.
To bring back something salsa-related, I've recently noticed that a salsa scene is a great place to view the behaviour you've described. It's all there: monogamy, cheating, polyandry, examples of 'attraction'.

One example: Guys who 'instruct' women on the dance floor. Even though it's rude, even if the guy is a mediocre dancer, I've seen women who find it attractive because the guy is showing confidence.

Another: The woman who dates several men serially, but all of different races than herself. This is a good evolutionary strategy, as it often results in healthier kids.

And: The man who tries to attract women by taking them out on dates. Maybe this worked in the past, but I don't think so today. As one woman told me (and she's a professor), "I don't need a guy to buy me dinner."
 
TwoCentsTipper said:
How many partners do you come across a night with whom you can have an opportunity to chat and touch when you go salsa dancing? A week? A Month? A year , two? um? You must have failed math miserably when you were in college.
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With all this contact, A salsa night is generally a far less efficent venue if you want to pick up than a drunken bar/night club.
 
SnowDancer said:
Another: The woman who dates several men serially, but all of different races than herself. This is a good evolutionary strategy, as it often results in healthier kids.
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When I look around (in NYC) interracial couples tend to be the a "minority race" woman with a white man. You rarely see a white woman with a minority race man. So it indicates to me that the women in interracial couples are going for perceived (sadly...) "higher social status" (and thus resources), which make perfect evolutionary sense.
 
SnowDancer said:
And: The man who tries to attract women by taking them out on dates. Maybe this worked in the past, but I don't think so today. As one woman told me (and she's a professor), "I don't need a guy to buy me dinner."
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Intresting that she didn't see (or perhaps he didn't present) a dinner date as a little time away from the crowd to relax, chat and get to know each other. I'm sure she didn't need him to buy her dinner, but dinner is not exactly a huge gesture and most women insist on going halves these days anyway.
 
Sabrosura said:
When I look around (in NYC) interracial couples tend to be the a "minority race" woman with a white man. You rarely see a white woman with a minority race man. So it indicates to me that the minority race women are going for perceived "higher status" (and thus resources).
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Most black Cuban teachers over here have white wives or girlfriends. Most of the black women I know have black boyfriends.
 
MMaatttt said:
With all this contact, A salsa night is generally a far less efficent venue if you want to pick up than a drunken bar/night club.
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It's true what you say MMaattt, but that's not what I mean and have been trying to portray al along. I am specifically talking about how things could "develop" over time. I'm not talking about one night standers I'm talking about how a person meets someone and finds her/him intriguing the first time only to have fallen under their spell the second time around. Then my friend when the Oxytocin (otherwise known as the love potion) floods the brain, I guarantee you that no rational mind will be able to stand in it's way regardless of the commitment level. I have witnessed it way too many times (With devoted wives and mothers, and husbands fathers) and can write chapters on stories like these. What i'm talking about is much more complex and sophisticated than a simple..... uhum...;)

These things are happening without planning. they just ... happen....
 
MMaatttt said:
Most black Cuban teachers over here have white wives or girlfriends. Most of the black women I know have black boyfriends.
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I didn't say that all minority race women choose white men. Just that within interracial couples, this is what I have observed.

The fact that the Cuban teachers have white partners (i.e. the fact that white women choose them instead of a white partner) makes total sense as being a "teacher" automatically gives them higher status, plus being good dancers (on top of being from a Latin culture) implies they know how to connect on a physical level and few men (in Western cultures) have that ability so Western women are starved for it. The more interesting question is, why would the Cuban teacher choose to marry a white woman given that the "average" Western woman (I mean no offense :p) is less sensual than the average Cuban/Latina woman.

Women are always falling for dance teachers. (I speak from experience... :rolleyes:)
 
Sabrosura said:
When I look around (in NYC) interracial couples tend to be the a "minority race" woman with a white man. You rarely see a white woman with a minority race man. So it indicates to me that the women in interracial couples are going for perceived (sadly...) "higher social status" (and thus resources), which make perfect evolutionary sense.
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I generally see the opposite here; but then, the minority population is very low, so there aren't a lot of examples. In the salsa scene, it's mostly latino men and 'anglo' women. Overall, I'd say that the women have a much higher level of education and income than the men. This makes for an interesting situation: A woman can choose a man she finds attractive without regard to his earning power.
 
MMaatttt said:
Intresting that she didn't see (or perhaps he didn't present) a dinner date as a little time away from the crowd to relax, chat and get to know each other. I'm sure she didn't need him to buy her dinner, but dinner is not exactly a huge gesture and most women insist on going halves these days anyway.
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She goes on lots of dates, but doesn't see the point in letting a guy buy her dinner if she's not attracted to him. Some guys see 'dating' as the first step; and I think this was true back in the old days, but not anymore.
 
SnowDancer said:
I generally see the opposite here; but then, the minority population is very low, so there aren't a lot of examples. In the salsa scene, it's mostly latino men and 'anglo' women. Overall, I'd say that the women have a much higher level of education and income than the men. This makes for an interesting situation: A woman can choose a man she finds attractive without regard to his earning power.
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same in Holland. I can count the number of black female - white male I met in my life on 1, well maybe 2 hands.
Black man - white girl I see alot. In salsa venues it seems to be the norm lol. You can see alot of female craving for a black man there (this sounds so wrong but can't put it any other way haha).
 
I would find it awkward to date in our salsa scene. It is such a small scene that if there were any drama, it would be like causing chaos in your own home or safe zone. Of course I haven't had to worry about that since I am too old (in my 40s) to date most women at our club.
 
Sabrosura said:
When I look around (in NYC) interracial couples tend to be the a "minority race" woman with a white man. You rarely see a white woman with a minority race man.
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In Seattle this only seems to be true of Asian women/white men (or maybe I just haven't been paying attention). Within the local salsa scene that's going to be true just because Asian women are over-represented and Asian men are way under-represented.

SnowDancer said:
One example: Guys who 'instruct' women on the dance floor. Even though it's rude, even if the guy is a mediocre dancer, I've seen women who find it attractive because the guy is showing confidence.
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I find that it's usually the mediocre (if not downright crappy) dancers who try to "teach" on the dance floor.
 
Kading said:
same in Holland. I can count the number of black female - white male I met in my life on 1, well maybe 2 hands.
Black man - white girl I see alot. In salsa venues it seems to be the norm lol. You can see alot of female craving for a black man there (this sounds so wrong but can't put it any other way haha).
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I do not think that this is necessarily or always because of the color of their skin but rather because they represent what we (white females) associate with salsa: they are Caribbean, outgoing, fun, frequently they are good dancers (!) etc. Although in Holland the salsa scene is not Latino but Caribbean, those caribeños represent the same "hotness" as Latinos. I lived in Holland and my experience was that the salsa scene had more dark skinned people then white skinned people, at least at the end of the 90s when I lived there, and most of the leads (and decent or good dancers) where dark skinned. There was a big discrepancy in the number of white leads (rather few) vs. white followers (a large majority) in the scene.

The phenomenon that most women are attracted to the "exotic" leads is similar in the German salsa scene although the scene in Germany is much less Caribbean than in Holland. It has always been the case that the Latino leads, no matter if they are good looking or not, or if they are womanizers or not, have a following and are very popular with most women. That even applies to the real axxhxxes :muted:. They can basically get away with anything.

Sabrosura said:
The fact that the Cuban teachers have white partners (i.e. the fact that white women choose them instead of a white partner) makes total sense as being a "teacher" automatically gives them higher status, plus being good dancers (on top of being from a Latin culture) implies they know how to connect on a physical level and few men (in Western cultures) have that ability so Western women are starved for it.
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That is exactly how I see it, too.
 
Kading said:
same in Holland. I can count the number of black female - white male I met in my life on 1, well maybe 2 hands.
Black man - white girl I see alot. In salsa venues it seems to be the norm lol. You can see alot of female craving for a black man there (this sounds so wrong but can't put it any other way haha).
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In the US there tend to be significant economic differences between the white and black/latino population. (Less so between whites and Asians). Generally black neighborhoods are mostly low income, etc. So (unfortunately) in the US, "generally" (of course there are always exceptions) "black" is associated with "low income".

Is that the same in Holland? My impression is that there are fewer economic differences there between the different ethnic groups.
 
Offbeat said:
Within 5 minutes ? What do you say :) Or you are only talking about potential dates?
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I don't know how it happens but whatever the conversation somehow it seems to lead to salsa or Cuba LOL. Maybe 5 minutes is a slight exaggeration but anyone who knows me even slightly knows that about me.
 
SnowDancer said:
She goes on lots of dates, but doesn't see the point in letting a guy buy her dinner if she's not attracted to him. Some guys see 'dating' as the first step; and I think this was true back in the old days, but not anymore.
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If she's not attracted to them, it's not going to happen anyway.
What would her idea of the beginning of a relationship look like?
 
Sabrosura said:
In the US there tend to be significant economic differences between the white and black/latino population. (Less so between whites and Asians). Generally black neighborhoods are mostly low income, etc. So (unfortunately) in the US, "generally" (of course there are always exceptions) "black" is associated with "low income".

Is that the same in Holland? My impression is that there are fewer economic differences there between the different ethnic groups.
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Kading certainly can answer this better than me. But from what I saw and know, that is not the case in the Netherlands. To me it looked like all got along very well and there do not seem to be any economic differences. Racism does not seem to be much of an issue, either. I talked about this with friends from Suriname who said they do not feel discriminated. This applies to the cities, in the countryside it might be different. (The majority of Caribbean people in Holland is originally from Suriname but most were born in in the Netherlands.) For me the Netherlands looked like a role model for different ethnic groups and races getting along very well.
 
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