Dancewithme
Son
Well, there is Hamburg salsa marathon... non stop, starting yesterday, until NYE party
Leader's blacklist
- Thread starter Offbeat
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Well, there is Hamburg salsa marathon... non stop, starting yesterday, until NYE party
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Speaking of which I just got back from one. I didn't go last night and I'm glad.
Bostontraitor
Son
Okay, I add something new to this post.
Yesterday, I went to social dancing. At the end of one dance, I asked the girl who just finished dancing with someone for the next dance.
She said: Can I go get some water before the dance?
I said: Sure, I am sorry, of course, you can.
So she went to the sitting area, while I walked her to the edge of the dance floor and stopped there. Don't want to be the creep to follow her to the seat. later, a friend of mine was there, and she asked me for the dance. I said: I would love to dance with you for this song. but I asked someone else first, and she's just getting the water and...
I was waiting there.
Guess what? That girl came back with someone else and proceed to the floor for the dance. There was not too many people there, she could see me clearly when she walked PASSBY me. And I was facing her. Ha!
I have never seen her before and probably will never see her again. So not practical to "blacklist" her. But followers like this exist.
I went dancing with my friend. it's all good.
Yesterday, I went to social dancing. At the end of one dance, I asked the girl who just finished dancing with someone for the next dance.
She said: Can I go get some water before the dance?
I said: Sure, I am sorry, of course, you can.
So she went to the sitting area, while I walked her to the edge of the dance floor and stopped there. Don't want to be the creep to follow her to the seat. later, a friend of mine was there, and she asked me for the dance. I said: I would love to dance with you for this song. but I asked someone else first, and she's just getting the water and...
I was waiting there.
Guess what? That girl came back with someone else and proceed to the floor for the dance. There was not too many people there, she could see me clearly when she walked PASSBY me. And I was facing her. Ha!
I have never seen her before and probably will never see her again. So not practical to "blacklist" her. But followers like this exist.
I went dancing with my friend. it's all good.
dwkfym
Changui
I've seen this happen. If I wer e in your shoes, she'd also be on the semi-black list for me because she obviously does not value other peoples' time. Semi-black (gray list? lol) because she might have been pestered by someone, or there was a friend out of town that was leaving, or some other **** like that and I probably won't refuse if she asked me to dance later. But I wouldn't ask someone like that to dance with me as long as my memory of that is still there. I have a rule for myself to prevent that from happening.
I will literally wait 30 seconds and move off. Its because I'm really impatient sometimes, but its kind of a safe rule to go by. Unless she keeps checking back, making eye contact, actively communicating with me to wait, I'll walk off. No big deal. Usually she'll ask me to dance later, or maybe not, or maybe at another event. I'm sure some girls have been upset because I walked off, but whatever, you kept me waiting for that long.. lol and most girls seem to understand this. And I'm sure some girls meant 'no' and in that case, I'm super glad I walked off. I usually don't ask a girl twice in the same night if she's said no with whatever excuse she had, so it works out.
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Mr Setenta
Son
The key is to always tell that lady we should just dance to another song. Otherwise, what if your friend gets taken before you can ask her and she sees you standing there? She'll think you put her on your blacklist.
IMO, it's a bit silly to worry about someone else's assumptions. You could do everything right and still get blacklisted because of something you never considered was rude but to someone else, it is rude.
It's not a big deal re: asking someone to dance then discovering they went off dancing with some other dude. If you make it into a big deal, you are only hurting yourself. The etiquette is there as a failsafe, but it isn't foolproof.
That's my take on the situation. So, yeah, she displayed bad manners, but it's not likely going to happen again.
I abandoned the idea of having principles in the dance scene long ago. To me, principles in dancing are just social norms disguised as noble acts.
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1derpalm
Son Montuno
Frequently when I'm talking to a girl (usually friend or good acquaintance) someone walks up and asks them and they ghost. No buggy. They're their to dance. Unfortunately I always hold off if it looks like an intense conversation and then someone swoops I. I gotta learn just to get in their lol.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
On Friday night I went dancing in T dot.
My friend's favorite follow was there.
She has said no thanks to me twice before. I assumed I was on her blacklist. I was putting her on the "she's too far above me" blacklist.
I was on fire that night (for me. I rate myself on a curve) so I asked her again.
She said yes. Glad I did. Her frame balance and light follow (not painfully light) was a joy as it was the end of the night.
I would screw up forgive an ambiguous lead and apologize.
After the dance she thanked me and told me I was too polite. And worry less be cause I'm pretty good.
Lesson: if they're polite in the rejection, try one more time.
My friend's favorite follow was there.
She has said no thanks to me twice before. I assumed I was on her blacklist. I was putting her on the "she's too far above me" blacklist.
I was on fire that night (for me. I rate myself on a curve) so I asked her again.
She said yes. Glad I did. Her frame balance and light follow (not painfully light) was a joy as it was the end of the night.
I would screw up forgive an ambiguous lead and apologize.
After the dance she thanked me and told me I was too polite. And worry less be cause I'm pretty good.
Lesson: if they're polite in the rejection, try one more time.
You are telling me you have no principles and values once you enter the dancing place? Strange!
To me that is what defines a person in life, work, business, personal relationships, and dancing. If I don’t compromise working or relationships with those whose values I can’t stand, I don’t see why I should make an exception in dancing.
p.s - I think you do have some principles in dancing scene, may not about certain types of behavior.
Is more common than people realize!
In the din and noise of the dancing place, sometimes intentions are unclear. Is it “I need a quick water break” or “I need a water break and don’t mind if you ask someone else” or “I need a water break and if you wait then we will dance” or “Wait, I will need a quick water break and be back”. Also this happens so quickly there is no time to exchange “so, you want me to wait or not” Sometimes the water break turns into a 30 second conversation or more with a friend.
I play it by ear. If follower is giving you eye contact or stretches her arm towards you, then you wait. If she has to go to further away or to another room, you wait reasonable time. Not possible to describe or define every possible combination. Sometimes I have abandoned waiting after 15-20 seconds and other times after a minute; to ask someone else. Overall the situation itself arise rarely and falls under exceptions, against the norm of flow.
In this particular scenario thinking from average followers pov, they get asked all the time. So the reaction is usually reflexive. If it is not outright rejection in follower’s mind, it won’t register to them that based on their actions that it could comes across differently to the recipien of the rejection. Even with straight, rejections some may assume oh, he will come back and ask again, no biggie. A follower could think - oh he will probably ask someone else to ask after I told him I am taking a water break, why would he wait - or - don’t see you waiting when asked by someone else.
In my experience, followers fall into a spectrum. Some have higher awareness of a situation, some less and some are oblivious. There are those that will seek you out after sitting out when you had originally asked, to those who will assume you will ask again, to those who are neutral.
Except for those with high awareness, I have found it difficult to explain leader’s pov, because leaders too fall into a spectrum. I have follower acquaintances tell/mention/complain about not regularly getting asked, seldom getting asked, stopped getting asked or never getting asked by certain leaders. I tell them, there could be multiple reason, if you want to dance with him just go and ask him. You don’t know what action of yours might have made me reluctant or it may not be what you did in first place.
There have been multiple followers who didn’t do anything to me but I haven’t asked for years on end, that have broken the ice by asking me.
Speaking to both leaders and followers, I have observed one recurring pattern irrespective of dance form. Most followers don’t remember saying no to a particular leader on two or three successive occasions. Most leaders do remember being rejected by a particular follower on successive occasions. (For those jumping to conclusions, successive occasion doesn’t mean within same day/night).
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dwkfym
Changui
You make too much sense, I think the only realistic reaction is to get super B-hurt, flaunt your blacklist on this thread, possibly launch into a sexual selection analysis and dress cooler next time.
Of leaders who have danced a few years regularly, I don’t know any with zero entry on DNA or blacklist.
For 95% of the leaders, a blacklist really means “DNA till follower asks”. Usually what we rationalize or describe in lengthy posts, happens in less than a second. That is all the time, the mind needs to process things and take an action.
After first six months to a year, most leaders are accustomed to shrugging off rejections, whether strange ones or regular. Talking or mentioning them doesn’t imply their self-esteem suffered a dent
. At least narrating experiences is better than gossiping
dwkfym
Changui
Of leaders who have danced a few years regularly, I don’t know any with zero entry on DNA or blacklist.
For 95% of the leaders, a blacklist really means “DNA till follower asks”. Usually what we rationalize or describe in lengthy posts, happens in less than a second. That is all the time, the mind needs to process things and take an action.
After first six months to a year, most leaders are accustomed to shrugging off rejections, whether strange ones or regular. Talking or mentioning them doesn’t imply their self-esteem suffered a dent
I only have 1 person on my blacklist. I added her when I was newer, and she still looks like a mean person and still looks like she'll be painful to dance with. Of course, my BL used to be bigger, but as I got better and gained more insight, they started falling off. I don't even have 'don't ask but accept' blacklists. I only do that if I have been turned down and there are still other people I want to dance with, and mainly just because I don't want to pester a girl that genuinely didn't want to dance with me that night. And it only lasts 1 event anyways.
Anyways I think this is what he meant by 'principles' though its obviously everyone knows this. I just have these rules so I don't have to think about it, and not waste time. Come out of the night with 0 bad feelings about being turned down. Been working okay for me.
Its also funny how I used to approach this. Newbie days, rejections would bother me a lot, all the way through the newb-intermediate days. Then stopped bothering me. Then later, it started bothering me again (how dare you! reject me!!), then I figured out how ridiculous my attitude is, and now nothing bothers me except racism/super rude rejections.
Actually, I guess I still have on petty thing left. If I ask a girl, and a girl acts like she really didn't want to but she'll say yes, I kinda want to say 'oh, never mind then' instead of showing her how wonderful a dance can be. (of course, now that I've written this, I do remember I did that once and then she insisted so she doesn't have to feel bad about it. I just made it more awkward lol)
We all eventually reach salsa yoda stage if we last in the scene long enough
May there is a meme about it somewhere!
I am sure. But it is only one girl and I don't blame her on this one.
I have a horribly big DNA. Sometimes I am not even sure if someone is in DNA. Its not that I wanted a big DNA. But it happened.
1) I used to dance with only dancers from my class. So others used to reject me. Many of them are in DNA.
2) Sometimes girls on my longtime DNA stands right next to me waiting for a dance, since they did not ask, I still do not ask. I cannot remove rejections. But I do not usually have a good night if multiple girls are saying no. I do not want to ask someone who said no before.
3) In my social scene, I see guys ask the same girl twice or more. I only ask once.
4) I think its a lead heavy environment. Girls still sit out a lot.
5) If a girl dances with me one song, she usually does not reject my second or third dance offer which I am using these days. Do any of you find yourself in the situation where you have a good group of DNA (girls who would not dance with you) but those who does, most of them do not mind dancing multiple songs with you?
6) As a person I am not as social. I have many close friends and I can warm up in a group. But I am horrible in walking up to a new person for a chat.
1) I used to dance with only dancers from my class. So others used to reject me. Many of them are in DNA.
2) Sometimes girls on my longtime DNA stands right next to me waiting for a dance, since they did not ask, I still do not ask. I cannot remove rejections. But I do not usually have a good night if multiple girls are saying no. I do not want to ask someone who said no before.
3) In my social scene, I see guys ask the same girl twice or more. I only ask once.
4) I think its a lead heavy environment. Girls still sit out a lot.
5) If a girl dances with me one song, she usually does not reject my second or third dance offer which I am using these days. Do any of you find yourself in the situation where you have a good group of DNA (girls who would not dance with you) but those who does, most of them do not mind dancing multiple songs with you?
6) As a person I am not as social. I have many close friends and I can warm up in a group. But I am horrible in walking up to a new person for a chat.
Let's admit almost every leader has a blacklist of followers whom he won't ask for a dance. Has this been discussed ? What makes you put someone in your blacklist? If you are a follower are you aware of someone that will never ask you to dance? Then may be you made it to their list for some reason
If I get refusals from a lady two consecutive times (in the same evening or otherwise) she is almost a sureshot candidate. Rarely will I ask her a third time (unless it is a benefit of doubt situation, may be she genuinely couldn't dance first two times). I was exchanging notes with my roommate at last salsa congress. His limit was three nos and we were laughing about whose list is bigger in our local scene.
Others who make it into the list are those who I see often in the same clubs, who if I smile at as I walk by but they don't smile back at me. If this happens several times and I start thinking they are giving that " I don't like you" kind of look (may be it is just their natural non-smiling self) then they are almost certain candidates. There are at least 4 or 5 in my blacklist for this reason. At least two of them I asked once and got a no, and they made it in my list.
If someone asks me to dance then they are out of the list. I never turned down anyone's request to dance. It is quite flattering (I am barely an average dancer and relatively new at that) and I appreciate how much courage it takes for a lady to come and ask (it is not very common in these parts for a girl to ask someone she doesn't know).
A "no" once is enough for me. She can ask me when she is ready. If I feel poor energy during a dance, I might not ask that person again either. I like positive energy. I'd rather dance with someone that isn't perfect technically but has good energy than someone that is a good dancer but has bad/awkward energy.