How to teach musicality.

V

vendetta4v

Well the headline speaks for its self.

After a lot of debates on and off the sf i decided that musicality is teachable through
1: explaining to people the structure of the song (meaning repetitive pattern call and respond inspiracion etc)

2: how to get out of certain rhythmic pattern and then get back to it

3: speed changes of your moves

4: double bit (meaning 1&2&3&4)

that's just tip of the iceberg most of my stuff is in development right night its mainly just ideas that pop into my head i write them down but it would be really hard for me to put it in words here. but i will do my best.
 
As Eddie the salsa freak says...."listen to the music...play it...." I saw this somehwere while redaing through her story section tonight.
 
Of course musicality is teachable, but I don't think it can simply be explained...it has to be internalized, or at the very least understood by a dancer, which takes more than an explanation.

The question is, how far into the actual music does a dancer have to delve? The answer to which, I think, is "it depends on what part they want the music to play in their dance".

If a person is new to dance, I definitely think it should initially be explained outside of the context of dance so that they can concentrate on, develop and refine the different elements of what they're doing separately...basically not trying to remember to step backwards and shift weight at the same time as finding the 1.

It may sound like too much, but I don't think it could hurt to sit someone down with an actual instrument for a few minutes before each lesson. Teach them some basic salsa rhythm patterns on a keyboard or clave, have them play with salsa music or something else elemental to the style. Music becomes a lot less technical and rigid once you have a more intimate relationship with sound.
 
This is a problem that I face every time my friends ask me how I manage to catch accents in music. Most people, I believe, face no real problems in identifying breaks because they really are 'climactic' in a sense. However accents are a different beast altogether.

What I've tried to do is to sit them down with tracks of different instruments and share with them how different percussive rhythms combine to give a complex sound that is layered, and how we can take one instrument at a time and play with the rhythms that it produces. Unfortunately I haven't seen that many results from this method, so I'm actively trying to seek opinions..

So, opinions guys! :P
 
esa negrita... said:
Of course musicality is teachable, but I don't think it can simply be explained...it has to be internalized, or at the very least understood by a dancer, which takes more than an explanation.

The question is, how far into the actual music does a dancer have to delve? The answer to which, I think, is "it depends on what part they want the music to play in their dance".


.
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I think you are confusing ( as many do ) music in its strictest sense as opposed to body motion that interprets music. The whole point of musical interpretation to any given piece of music ?-- its indefinable by its very nature-- it is impromptu and of the moment .
The " art " of "coloring" movement with different layers and expressions has to be felt thru the understanding of how the body should move, and , at the same time be in sync with your partner by translating those feelings .

Most try to pigeon hole a set piece of actions and apply it at set times-- yes -- but only to a limited degree .
If you are pre planning each and every move ( other than shows etc ) then the whole point of dance becomes lost in the morass of moves, that have no significance to the event .
Baile siempre con alma y corason .
 
nowhiteshoes said:
er... whats an accent :oops: . hopefully i can hear them in the music but dont know what the name is (or probably im about to learn).
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It's just a bit that stands out a bit more than the other bits.
 
nowhiteshoes said:
er... whats an accent :oops: . hopefully i can hear them in the music but dont know what the name is (or probably im about to learn).
Click to expand...

My guess-- they are attempting to describe certain passages in a given "piece ", that cause musical changes and or highlites ( as in Montuno and Cumbia rhythms for e.g. ) there are other e.g. , but I think you will get the idea .
 
sweavo said:
nowhiteshoes said:
er... whats an accent :oops: . hopefully i can hear them in the music but dont know what the name is (or probably im about to learn).
Click to expand...

It's just a bit that stands out a bit more than the other bits.
Click to expand...


succinct-- and right to the point !!
 
All classes here and I suspect in most places are the "cool turn pattern of the week" variety. 45 minutes of the instructor counting 123-567 and the students struggling with the turn pattern. The last 15 minutes with music and the students not listening to the music because they are still struggling with the turn pattern. It's no wonder Salsa dancers lack musicality.

A large part of musicality is feeling and reacting to the music. You cannot teach feeling so that part of it is not teachable. What instructors can do is to train the body and ear to become aware of the rhythms in the music. This is not an overnight process. It takes time and students need to have the discipline to go through this.

Narcosis, you say you don't see results from sitting students down and explaining the music to them. I had the same thing done to me in a private a couple of years ago. It was a complete waste of time and money. It was beyond my comprehension at that point and I was not ready for it. The instructor should have realized this.

All advanced practitioners of any sport execute what they do effortlessly and there is a certain feel and rhythm to the moves. They don’t think, they just feel and react to the moment. This did not come from someone sitting down and explaining it to them. It came from years and years of drilling fundamentals and playing the game.

Salsa dancers need to do the same. Drill the fundamentals to music or instruments playing. This trains the body and ear at the same time. Turn patterns are made up of fundamentals so now learning turn patterns becomes easy and you no longer have to think as hard. Not thinking allows you to listen to the music. That is your training, to get good you still have to get on the playing field and play the game. That means a lot of social dancing.
 
rjoe92057 said:
All classes here and I suspect in most places are the "cool turn pattern of the week" variety.

NOT in my " ballpark " !


That means a lot of social dancing.--probably the most important aspect .
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rjoe92057 said:
All classes here and I suspect in most places are the "cool turn pattern of the week" variety. 45 minutes of the instructor counting 123-567 and the students struggling with the turn pattern. The last 15 minutes with music and the students not listening to the music because they are still struggling with the turn pattern. It's no wonder Salsa dancers lack musicality.

quote]

i cant stand when teachers put on a song to practice the routine that has changes in the music - its happens alot :evil: . i love dancing to those songs but i find it really odd dacning on the 5, i prefer to switch then again. not really possible in end of class song (id then be 'off' from the teacher - not all follows like this). there was a (long) where i couldnt tell the 1 from the 5 but dancing on 5 feels to me what it would be like to drive the wrong way down a one way street at 4am. no one would know it would just be wrong (for me)
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vendetta4v said:
so in other words can it be listening to salsa music more often i listen 24/7 and every chance i have. deffenetly did the trick for me
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There goes.... ;-) It did it for me.
 
Terence2 said:
I think you are confusing ( as many do ) music in its strictest sense as opposed to body motion that interprets music. The whole point of musical interpretation to any given piece of music ?-- its indefinable by its very nature-- it is impromptu and of the moment .
The " art " of "coloring" movement with different layers and expressions has to be felt thru the understanding of how the body should move, and , at the same time be in sync with your partner by translating those feelings .

Most try to pigeon hole a set piece of actions and apply it at set times-- yes -- but only to a limited degree .
If you are pre planning each and every move ( other than shows etc ) then the whole point of dance becomes lost in the morass of moves, that have no significance to the event .
Baile siempre con alma y corason .
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm confused at all Terrance. I think that the ability to coordinate ones body with music...the ability to interpret and express is best reached (by those who don't have a "natural" musicality) by understanding the music, understanding one's body and THEN combining the two...something akin to the concept of performing isolations until they become second nature and then letting the music simply flow.

I believe dancers are musicians themselves, but their primary instrument is their body. No one learns to create music with an instrument before knowing what the instrument is...or before knowing what music is. Both elements are simultaneously essential.

For instance, one poster mentioned frustration with songs that changed tempo. One who is familiar/comfortable with music would be less likely to be thrown by this and more likely to see it as an opportunity for expression. If a person doesn't naturally feel music, understanding what is happening will, to use your analogy, give them a broader and higher quality palette on which to paint.

I definitely do not believe in learning sequences as the best method for teaching musicality (though I do think it's effective for some). Being a musician myself, I am probably biased about the amount of musical understanding that could actually be beneficial to a dancer, but, at the same time, I don't think many dancers would disagree that intimacy with Salsa music breeds the most beautiful and inspired musicality. That can be greatly enhanced by the experience of producing music onesself.
 
Musicality - How To Teach - How to Learn

Dance is a language. Basic moves are words, turn patterns are sentences and sequences are akin to a story - with a song providing background.

It takes time to acquire dance vocabulary and it takes time to 'know' different songs and pieces of music, where the musicians provide their own surprises, where the music pauses or breaks in interesting ways.

Looking at the turnover in the salsa scene 50-80+% per year, it is no wonder that musicality is such a challenge. They are not around enough long enough to acquire the needed experience.

Listen to the music as much as you can. Walk around the house to the music. Absorb the music. That is the first step to learning musicality. Eventually you will be able to read the music and its nuances. Work your patterns and combinations to flow with these nuances.

Start playing with the turn patterns that you know, mix them up, match them, break them up and re-assemble them. Learn new ones. And when the new ones feel comfortable break them up and add them to what you know.

Dance with different partners. Experiment with your turn patterns and work with the music. If it's strong, stronger bolder moves. If it is softer, softer flirty gentle moves. If there are pauses, and you know a pause is coming, skip the spaghetti arms pattern you love and do something that will meet the pause in the music.

Sometimes it is hilarious to watch a room full of turn technicians madly turning their partners while the music is dead silent during a pause.

All of this takes time and patience.
 
I think it's a cop out to say that musicality has to be felt and can't be taught from one person to another. :? I believe that anything can be taught, as long as there is a willing and attentive student, and an instructor who is sufficiently knowledgeable and articulate.

It's just like teaching someone to paint. Sure, some people will be better at executing the results than others, or do it with more aesthetic flair, but the best painters are still expanding upon the same fundamental "rules" that average painters use. Good art instructors can teach advanced students more than just technical rules about shading and perspective, they can teach a student how to achieve different effects by bending the standard rules -- and then it's up to the student to decide what type of "bending" works best for him/her. For example, Vincent Van Gogh may have been distinctive from other painters, but an art instructor can still teach someone to identify "a Van Gogh" by explaining certain elements that were common throughout his works. In other words, there were still "rules" that Van Gogh followed, even if he never articulated them himself.

As we all know, though, the vast majority of Salsa students don't have sufficient patience or desire to listen to a thorough explanation of musicality -- when they think they could be using that same amount of time to learn more "moves." :roll: Thus, as a practical matter, the rare Salsa instructor who can really explain musicality, probably doesn't have enough of a local pool of students to justify teaching those classes. The Internet and instructional DVDs are ways of bridging the gaps between interested students and capable instructors -- so hopefully technology will help the Salsa world in that way.....
 
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