Hopeless About The "Established" Salsa Congress Format...

Salsa Student said:
IIRC, the San Francisco congress used to have a strict-no recording at the end of class policy but had a DVD available of all the instructors demonstrating what they were teaching (at a price).
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Standard policy in B/room events. And, the Vids are 1st class, in most cases .Works very well .
 
I'm not sure how to respond to this but I'm jot so sure it's that black and white... People go for different reasons. That must have we all know. But I don't think the hook up thing is that huge.. Just indulge me for a second, since not everyone is there to hookup those who are there for that need to identify and put their bid in so to speak in a very short time... Trust me when I say this not everyone is so gifted with game that they can pull that off... I've seen it work and more often I've seen it not work. So let's say of the available crowd it's a 70/30 mix of dancers to those who are there to hook up. Of those thirty percent 15 percent couldn't take their way into see with Hitch's help... So that leaves 15 percent....Who then need to find one another and then wait usually want to be attracted to that other person they want to do it with and have that reciprocated. Let's be optimistic and say 10 percent are successful (and I think I'm really helping by ring generous here)... So basically you ha v ten percent of the Congress screwing like rabbits and I don't think that thats a great number... Now to the other parts of the Congress. When I did Zurich they had one hour of shows, I hope I didn't miss a hour or anything lol. That was amazing. The came in kicked ass, rolled right to Victor manuelle and then social dancing until 8am. Don't recall Hamburg because u like Zurich when I Made conscious decision to see the city I slept in and went to the spa during the day in Hamburg.... I did do a few workshops in Ny this year and definitely found them helpful. The problem with Congress workshops start with the attendees.. If your basic skills aren't tight then you will not be able to learn and retain what was taught. Due to this and universally people thinking they are steer than the are you have reached who then choose to teach to the Lowest skill level. I remember a friend telling me that at a Amanda Estillo workshop years ago so stopped the class and explained that it's a advanced level class if you're not advanced them she will ask you to leave because you are wasting her and everyone else's time. Dancers police yourselves and teachers police your classes...
 
alvinthethird said:
One of my buddies posted this on fb, and I thought I'd share it here to hear what SF thinks, particularly members who have attended congresses in the US and elsewhere-

III. Fading Appeal

In my travels around the U.S. I've come to find that the appeal of Salsa Congresses is usually dependent on the experience level of the participant.

1) Beginning and relatively inexperienced dancers will typically focus on the "whole package" mentality: Workshops, parties, social dancing, performances, and bands.

2) Intermediate dancers are still focused on the social aspect, but might throw in a few private lessons here and there.

3) Advanced dancers essentially forego the majority of workshops and performances,
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I don't understand why there is a problem. The essence of the fb OP is summed up here very well. Congress attendees determine their level and then do what is said above for the most part. The congress format works because most people follow the lines 1,2,3 above. It doesn't make any sense to change. My guess is that only 5% or less of intermed or adv go to workshops. Why should any smart event organizer even bother to listen to a complaint by the 5%.

...except... This only applies to xbody (on1 or 2) congresses.

For casino rueda congresses the picture is totally different because you have to have a lot of dancers in the same space to pull off a great rueda event. For rueda congresses the complaint is that they become to popular and then there isn't enough room to fit all the circles into the space.

On a side note, the only xbody congress that I go to is the Chicago Salsa Congress. I go there even though there is a very large rueda congress in SF on the same weekend.
In Chicago in order of personal priority I get to:
#1 See big name salsa bands.
#2 Hook up with friends I haven't seen in a year (since the last congress).
#3 Dance with people from all over the Midwest that I normally would not meet.
#4 Socialize with the crew from home, the road trip thing.

While I don't rank performances and workshops high enough to be on the priority list, I go with different expectations than someone who wants to get the most for their money.

So bottom line, I agree with the description in the post, but I disagree that there is a need for change.
 
I also remember years ago and this speaks to Sabs point about different scenes, I think it's incumbent upon dancers going to Congresses to not dance with people from your scene.... The point that is to experience new and different styles that expand your view vision of the dance. Indulge me again... My mom tells a story that I'm 1979 she goes to the door after hearing a Knock and Bob Marley is at the door. They exchange pleasantries and he asks her ' did your husband get my messages?' she answers yea and he says are you sure... She says yes she gave him his messages. He then tells her to please have my dad call him back please because he needs him to do some work and some songs he's working on(my dad is a reggae bass guitar player)... Forward to me hearing this story and asking my dad if he was really blowing off Bob Marley in 1979 and his reply was this.... At that time in Jamaica Bob was it.. He'd been signed by Island records etc and so everyone was up his ass basically so they could work with him... My dad said that at that time he had his own brand and worked with a few different people... Burning Spear, Beres Hammond, Dennis Brown etc... so he was in fact busy but and this is the important part, he didn't hang out at the studio..he went in did what he needed to do and kept it moving. He had noticed that those guys who hung out all day at the studio waiting and waiting started to sound the same.. Their individuality got diluted /corrupted and he didn't want that to happen to him... So that when he did call Bob back and they worked together I K we before he told me which songs he had created and played the baselines for because I know we his style and somewhat his sound because it was distinctive. This translates here because if all we do as dancers are dance with the same people all the time we start to look similar and our movements lose their individuality.. And we don't want that or at least we shouldn't... So when at a congress 90% of your dances should be with people not familiar to you.. No offense but I can dance with all the yahoo's in my scene any other time.. Why am I going to do that at a congress... That's madness... Groove with other people.. See how they respond to what you are working with... See if it works with people who don't see it every day and see how you respond to what they are hopefully throwing at you... That's the point of a congress.... As a co worker of mine says... "Push Yourself....."
 
How about you organise a congress, precisely how you want it to be run, and see how you go. I guarantee you'll lose a lot of money and you won't be able to run one next year.

This is the reality.
 
Sabrosura said:
I still have trouble believing these happen that frequently (at regular 3-day congresses, not talking about week-long beach festivals), between sleep deprivation/drunkenness to the point of collapse after the after-parties and people rooming 10 together at a time (zero privacy).

Also, people will really pay $500+ (or even more depending on transportation) just to try to have a one night stand or two..? Some people must be really desperate :p
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Hehe such attendees don't go _just_ for the one night stand -- it is a major part of the experience, though. I'm not saying the majority or even a large proportion of attendees go to congresses to hook up, but for a substantial portion it is a draw. At least here in Eastern Europe. Also, 10 people rooming together isn't very common here as far as I can tell, nor is getting drunk at the congress (which incidentally gives you an excuse to take someone to your room for a glass of wine. . .)
 

Hi Alvin, A really interesting post. I have been looking at running a Congress in London so have spent the past year just thinking about it. Here are my thoughts about the points above.

I. 1-Hour Workshops

The majority of people that go to congresses (from what I have seen around Europe) workshops these days are generally (give some rope) intermediate and advanced "students". Therefore the dancers that attend workshops just want some moves, some new vocabulary, a bit of styling which a 1 hour workshop is adequate for. The more experienced dancers i.e. the ones who really would be interested in the higher level stuff are generally there to meet and socialise with friends, hit the pre-parties and then dance all night. Around Europe there is a sudden wave of Congress bootcamps where you will spend 6 hours a day for 3-4 days with an instructor.

II. Too Many Performances By Everyone And Their Grandma

I am not too sure how things are state side but performances are a way of bringing in people. For professionals that run schools this is often a place to market themselves and thus they get to perform because they bring loads of students; this is normally his is the trade off that the Congress promoters makes. This also applies for the vast number of student groups that we see at Congresses today - all of which will most likely be buying full passes.

I regularly will go and pay £60 for a two hour show. Or lets face it we do go to the cinema and watch two hour long moves. It is not really about the quantity of the shows but the lack of quality (barring the final few shows).

III. Fading Appeal

Again, I am not too sure about the US, but the growth in Congresses around Europe is phenomenal. There are multiple congresses each weekend and most are cheap and not that hard to get to. In Europe we have a very good network of budget airlines so travelling is far cheaper than it used to be. However this means that at any given congress you do not know who is going to be there. 7 years ago, I knew that at certain congresses all my European buddies will be there, in today's world, they are split so the incentive is also less.

There have been some interesting things going on. Rostov was a very different congress and some guys are thinking of doing Salsa marathons (the same thing that people do in Tango). So these should freshen things up a bit if things go well for the.

Just my two cents on the matter :) Hope you are well bro.
 
Salsa Student said:
IIRC, the San Francisco congress used to have a strict-no recording at the end of class policy but had a DVD available of all the instructors demonstrating what they were teaching (at a price).
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Yes, I remember going to one of those. And that's why I never went again! (Plus each night had HOURS of performances... They even cleared the main room after the first hour of dancing for another round of them!:facepalm:)
 
Kading said:
I talked with this to a russian girl, and she said a lot of russian girls wanna hook up with a hot latino/carribean guy. You have zero of those guys in Russia (or close to zero), so they are craving for some black....
Nope can't formulate it any more decent :p
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Tsk Tsk.......so the chocolate sandwich rears it's ugly head.....again....isn't this forum supposed to be family oriented?
 
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Sabrosura said:
Also, people will really pay $500+ (or even more depending on transportation) just to try to have a one night stand or two..? Some people must be really desperate :p
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I am one of those desperate people, as evident by my recent $800 a night hotel room in Istanbul. When I checked in late kind of late, they were about to give my room to someone else who was willing to pay even more. Well, that one night was still worth it, every penny, as they did provide a nice room that started dancing 11pm while keeping the shows in the main room, and the main room was having plenty of dancers till 7am. So that one night meant 8 hours of dancing, and with a few short rests in between, I will go back again when my schedule permit, for just one night.
 
SnowDancer said:
Yes, I remember going to one of those. And that's why I never went again! (Plus each night had HOURS of performances... They even cleared the main room after the first hour of dancing for another round of them!:facepalm:)
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Yes, very bad in North America. I just returned from China Salsa Congress, and it was totally different. The schedule said performances will end and dancing to start 11:30pm, and from my experiences, I thought dancing will actually start around 1AM, but both nights they actually ended the shows earlier and people started dancing around 11PM!
 
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