Hopeless About The "Established" Salsa Congress Format...

One of my buddies posted this on fb, and I thought I'd share it here to hear what SF thinks, particularly members who have attended congresses in the US and elsewhere- are the criticisms valid in europe, asia, austraila as well?...im largely in agreement with his points, especially the 1hr workshop and the trimming of the performance time.

Why I'm Hopeless About The "Established" Salsa Congress Format
it too early for the venerable Festivus holiday, but I shall air my grievances anyhow, in no particular order of importance:

I. 1-Hour Workshops

You're lucky if you learn a turn and/or shine pattern properly, but normally it's a rush job. The instructor's philosphy and why they do what they do (why it works) is lost in the race to deliver the "product" to the paying customers, who eagerly await at the end of the lesson with cameras ready.

Not only that, but there is an overabundance of workshops, and one can never really enjoy something from all the artists in attendance. The way the current system stands, promoters and consumers could save a lot more time and money if they simply let the consumers record a video of the patterns and movements with counts and music. 5 minutes per workshop is all you need, and then you move on to the next instructor and so on. Granted, I've been able to absorb an incredible amount of knowledge AND some philosophy by artists within 1 hour, but they're the exception rather than the norm.

Instead of having tons of workshops by decent artists, perhaps the best alternative is having fewer yet more insightful and useful workshops (2+ hours, with breaks) by universally established masters of their craft. European and other congresses abroad typically have more alternatives, such as bootcamps and intensive/focused training, so I'm disappointed that the U.S. largely stuck with that "drive through" or "career fair" model.

II. Too Many Performances By Everyone And Their Grandma


Yes, everyone who would like stage experience should be able to get it; Yes, we all start from somewhere; Yes, it can be an exhilarating experience and challenge to perform in front of a somewhat-international audience; Yes, it can be a blessing to have shared the same stage as world-class dancers, which serves to validate your dance journey in whatever way it suits you. I acknowledge these are benefits that should not be ignored, but a Congress isn't the most ideal setting to find these. The issue isn't a matter of "who gets to perform," but how overloading the performance schedule does a major disservice to both performers (experienced or otherwise) as well as the general audience in attendance.

The reason for this is that for 3-4 days on a given Congress weekend, most events will have upwards of 4 (sometimes more) hours of shows per evening. By the time the actual headliners come on, it's already well into midnight or 1 A.M. Afterwards, the ballrooms are closed for a while until they take the seating out and the live band sets up. It's not until very late that people can actually social dance to the musicians that were sold to them. Making matters worse, not every city allows for events to go until too late, with the exception of L.A. and New York (but even those pale in comparison to how late congresses abroad can go until).

Why so many shows? Don't Congresses have an audition process where prospective performers send in a video, which helps the promoter determine if they have what it takes to be on stage?

The answer is essentially "more performers = more money." Unless you are an extremely successful dancer or team, you will actually end up paying to appear on stage (and more than likely, paying your own way and accommodation). In exchange for this monstrous investment, promoters may offer a miniscule discount in the form of a "Performer's Pass," but that's it. Now, if one takes into consideration a performer who manages to get some friends and family to attend the event (and pay to get in, of course), the promoter gets even more money out of the performer. Let's say the promoter prohibits video recording of the shows, but sells DVDs after the event--well, this is yet another way the promoter extracts more money out of the performer (of course, the performer will never see a cut of those DVD sales).

Simply put, it's nonsense. It's tantamount to me paying the public schools I work for in order to work in them--not on a "break even" base but putting me further in the red, just for the experience and manufactured privilege to be there.

Promoters will hardly enforce those audition video requirements because...why should they? It's free money! However, that causes a dragged-out schedule for everyone else, and limits how much others can enjoy the headlining acts. A better solution would be to only book the headlining acts and allow for plenty of time to social dance and enjoy the live band and DJs. The result is everyone has the option of how much to enjoy the evening rather than being forced to sit and wait for hours just because the promoter wanted to squeeze more money out of gullible performers. Even better, why not do away with performances altogether and have multiple live bands per evening?

III. Fading Appeal

In my travels around the U.S. I've come to find that the appeal of Salsa Congresses is usually dependent on the experience level of the participant. Beginning and relatively inexperienced dancers will typically focus on the "whole package" mentality: Workshops, parties, social dancing, performances, and bands. Intermediate dancers are still focused on the social aspect, but might throw in a few private lessons here and there. Advanced dancers essentially forego the majority of workshops and performances, instead opting for the bootcamps/intensives (if offered), private lessons, and social dancing/meeting new people. These notable differences in approach are what leads to the development of unique Salsa jargon or ways of describing things amongst dancers:

Person A: "Hey, are you going to the Yellow Brick Road Salsa Congress?"
Person B: "Hmm, I'm not sure--is it a party congress or a dance congress?"

"Party Congress" is another expression for having a great time, without much focus on the learning and dancing aspects: Parties (whether sponsored by the congress or in hotel suites), "freakshows" (stunts like twerking contests, wet t-shirt contests, etc), and pretentious themed parties (lingerie night, PJ night, etc). A "Dance Congress" is essentially a congress that foregoes all the trivialities of Party Congresses and instead maintains the focus strictly on the social enjoyment and technical advancement of dancing.

Most congresses market themselves as Dance Congresses, but end up being Party Congresses. Before people assume I'm an old fart because I don't like Party Congresses, perhaps consider the hundreds of dollars spent in 3-4 days and how little you receive in return besides hangovers and sleep deprivation.

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The aforementioned points are just a few of the reasons why I will not be at congresses. There is plenty more, but that's all I want to point out at this time in the detail I employed.

If you are just getting started with your dance journey, I do recommendCongresses as a starting point and something fun to do for a few times. As the current model stands, the luster will undoubtedly fade, at which point I would recommend alternative ways of exploring the many avenues in dance and music (such as focused seminars and talks by various artists).

I'm hopeful a more sustainable system will arise in my time. In the meantime, I will pursue other avenues for learning and enjoying dance that do not involve Congresses. That, or I'll just wait until I can begin a more regular travel schedule abroad. See you on the [non-congress] dance floor! :)
 
A few quick comments. As much as it baffles me, many people actually want to see the shows. There are a few congresses where you pay extra if you want to watch performances and also there are rooms open for dancing during that time. It still ends up being full in the performance room and often empty in the dancing room.

Also about the 'party congresses', they do offer a lot of value it's just not about dancing. It's about the vacation feeling, flirting, escape from boring reality and so on. People line up to go to these, there must be a reason. For the record, I've never been to any of those and not planning to but I'm pretty sure I'm right here.
 
While congresses can be fun and you definitely can learn a thing or two, I do think the return on your money -- especially if you're travelling -- is horrible. Yeah, the congress class environment isn't that great for learning anything new. But then, I would say that about almost any group class environment. My personal preference is to travel to a core country or to a top teacher elsewhere and take privates -- feels like a much better way to spend my hard-earned cash.

Edit: SalsaGipsy's certainly right about party congresses. I know plenty of people, male and female, who go to those for one night stands. . . sometimes several during the same congress.
 
One of my buddies posted this on fb, and I thought I'd share it here to hear what SF thinks, particularly members who have attended congresses in the US and elsewhere- are the criticisms valid in europe, asia, austraila as well?...im largely in agreement with his points, especially the 1hr workshop and the trimming of the performance time.


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Excellent !!!!.. He covered pretty much all of the salient points I rant about ( and many people I know ).
The one that was left out was " content ".
A small word with a HUGE meaning .

The diversity, by all accounts, is lacking. In otherwords, essentially the same "gurus ? " giving the same stuff.
its kinda sad that, the doctrine of " shows " ad infinitum, is one of the main selling points ( not to mention the number they crowd in ) .
And the ultimate sad thing ?.. all this will fall on deaf ears .
 
Strangely, in my case, I enjoy watching the performances at the local Congress. It is really the only time I enjoy performances. I don't not want to see them at my social dancing throughout the rest of the year. I no longer take the workshops for the reasons cited by the OP. I volunteer to work for the Congress during the workshop hours. I like the chance to dance with people from out of town. And finally, we often get some very good headliner bands to play in the evening.

However, I only go to one Congress each year and it is local. I wouldn't travel to go to a Congress. I would rather travel and experience the normal local dance scene in another city.
 
The local (Seattle) congress went to a 2 hour wokshop format a year or two ago, although I probably wouldn't sign up for them at all if Santo Rico weren't a regular participant.

Never seen a twerking or wet t-shirt contest or anything like 4 hours of performances in a given night (although they do seem interminable sometimes). Which congresses has your friend been to?
 
A few quick comments. As much as it baffles me, many people actually want to see the shows. There are a few congresses where you pay extra if you want to watch performances and also there are rooms open for dancing during that time. It still ends up being full in the performance room and often empty in the dancing room.

I've started calling congresses "performer reunions", so it should be of no surprise that the ballroom is full of people since they are on performance teams themselves and then there are the friends and family members who there to support the people on stage. I joined a team (non-performing role) and I don't think most of the people on the team would go to these type of events if not for the fact that they're on the team. Plus there are always the new congress goers that are paying for the full experience who come to the shows as well.

I'll do one night of performances but that's all i can muster
 
I know plenty of people, male and female, who go to those for one night stands. . . sometimes several during the same congress.

I still have trouble believing these happen that frequently (at regular 3-day congresses, not talking about week-long beach festivals), between sleep deprivation/drunkenness to the point of collapse after the after-parties and people rooming 10 together at a time (zero privacy).

Also, people will really pay $500+ (or even more depending on transportation) just to try to have a one night stand or two..? Some people must be really desperate :p
 
The local (Seattle) congress went to a 2 hour wokshop format a year or two ago, although I probably wouldn't sign up for them at all if Santo Rico weren't a regular participant.

Sounds like you might not want to sign up for the workshops at the next Seattle congress then. Santo Rico is in the middle of some radical changes. Their main location in Harlem is closing in a month.
 
His conclusion is probably correct:
If you are the kind of person whose primary or, in fact, only objective is to improve your dancing then Salsa congresses are probably not right for you.
Unfortunately, I don't think you can blame promoters as they do need to create something that appeals to a wider audience.

For me personally, the solution is right there in his rant:

- Skip the performances and catch up on sleep instead: that's the twin problems of overly long performance sections as well as sleep deprivation taken care of.

- Do not do every single workshop because you paid for a full pass and want to maximise your return: pick the sessions you really really fancy leaving free blocks of time in-between for eating/sleeping/casual bit of nookie.

It might a personal preference thing but the 1 hour format has worked ok for me so far, at congresses and in general. On the rare occasions when I've struggled is when I had my level wrong which happened on a few occasions during my on2 journey. And that was my fault.
 
Sounds like you might not want to sign up for the workshops at the next Seattle congress then. Santo Rico is in the middle of some radical changes. Their main location in Harlem is closing in a month.
Anything you can talk about here?
If you are the kind of person whose primary or, in fact, only objective is to improve your dancing then Salsa congresses are probably not right for you.
I'd say that depends on what your alternatives are. If you're from a third-tier (or no-tier) salsa city with poor or no instruction and a low level of dancing, I'd say you could potentially learn a lot from a congress. You could argue that you'd be better off going to LA or NY for a week or two, but that's not an option for everyone.
 
Personally I believe congresses are contributing to the diminishing of salsa. Well not the congresses, but the filming of workshops at congresses. People think they can just go on youtube to learn, which of course is not true. So teachers, classes and the congresses themselves suffer. Some people don't think they need to go to class when they have the internet. And I believe it unfair to the instructors, even if its the review at the end of class, to post videos of their work so people can copy their work for free. I think cameras should be banned. I also think this contributes to the "bah" dancer as talked about in a different thread.
If you take a private class, filming it for personal use is fine but not for the whole world to see.
I love to go to congresses for the great artists they get. I could do without all of the performances. But like Wessex said perfect for a nap, wardrobe change, snack or whatever.

The workshops should be at least 2 hours long. An hour is not a workshop it is a class. Workshops should be in-depth and you can hardly do that in an hour. Especially in partner work.

Congresses are a great place to take privates from instructors from out of town, well worth it because you will actually learn something. I had a friend who is pretty new to salsa come back from a congress and I asked him what he learned and he remembered 1/2 of one pattern and part of a shine:eek: I think all the input is too much and it begins blend together and cancel out. Again good advice from Wessex...pick and choose what you do. Quality not quantity.
 
I still have trouble believing these happen that frequently (at regular 3-day congresses, not talking about week-long beach festivals), between sleep deprivation/drunkenness to the point of collapse after the after-parties and people rooming 10 together at a time (zero privacy).

Also, people will really pay $500+ (or even more depending on transportation) just to try to have a one night stand or two..? Some people must be really desperate :p
It's not like it's either or. You dance till 4:00, you have sex, and than you wake up and go to workshops. Repeat the next day.
The only thing difference between people who are not hooking up, is that they either dance till a later time, or they have 1 hour of sleep more :p

I talked with this to a russian girl, and she said a lot of russian girls wanna hook up with a hot latino/carribean guy. You have zero of those guys in Russia (or close to zero), so they are craving for some black....
Nope can't formulate it any more decent :p
 
I still have trouble believing these happen that frequently (at regular 3-day congresses, not talking about week-long beach festivals), between sleep deprivation/drunkenness to the point of collapse after the after-parties and people rooming 10 together at a time (zero privacy).

Also, people will really pay $500+ (or even more depending on transportation) just to try to have a one night stand or two..? Some people must be really desperate :p
It happens more than you think. People find a way:p
 
It's not like it's either or. You dance till 4:00, you have sex, and than you wake up and go to workshops. Repeat the next day.
The only thing difference between people who are not hooking up, is that they either dance till a later time, or they have 1 hour of sleep more :p

I talked with this to a russian girl, and she said a lot of russian girls wanna hook up with a hot latino/carribean guy. You have zero of those guys in Russia (or close to zero), so they are craving for some black....
Nope can't formulate it any more decent :p

Lol, honestly I haven't seen a lot of "hot Latin/Caribbean" guys at congresses. Maybe I am spoiled by my frequent trips to the Dominican Republic. ;) Now that is a feast for the female eyes... :D
 
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I think everyone who dances for a while gets jaded. I've been to one congress and I had a decent time. Going to another in a couple of weeks, and I am mostly excited to meet my friends and to observe the dancers on the other side of the country. That's exciting to me and I'm actually glad I find it so!

Since I am a slow learner, I do not think of the workshops as places you learn anything. It's just a taster. You record the video, you go home, you try it, it doesn't work, and then you start thinking about how you can go about learning it, which instructor to work with, etc etc. I mean, honestly, If you can pick up what they are teaching in one hour, then you probably knew it already in the first place.
 
For me, the most exciting thing about congresses--and this has not changed at all since the first one I went to--is experiencing a different salsa scene, different styles, meeting new people I would otherwise never dance with. And also getting a small taste of different instructors I would otherwise never meet--because, yeah, an hour is just a "taste".

However, while this aspect still excites me, over time I have noticed that congresses are now mostly performer parties, as someone else stated. I see mostly a mix of beginners and performers, and very few experienced "social dancers". So after continuing to hope this was an exception, I realize it's a trend and have been going to a lot less congresses as a result. But the "different scene" aspect still excites me and I continue to go to congresses in places I have not been to yet--going to be in Atlanta in a couple of weeks for instance.

What I do differently from when I first started going to congresses is I generally only get the evening pass instead of the full pass, unless the workshops look really interesting (i.e. different than the usual pattern and shine cram type classes), as is the case with the Atlanta congress for instance which has a lot of musicality/Afro-Cuban/body movement type classes. I realized early on most of the congress workshops were very boring to me (and as a follow, I don't care about the pattern ones), and the main thing I gained from them was sleep deprivation :rolleyes:--I would much rather sleep in and sightsee instead. I try to spend the afternoons sightseeing and trying out the local cuisine at every congress I go to. :)

I also always nap during the performances. :D I have never sat through a full set of congress performances, not even at my first congress--no idea how people do it :p; though if I wake up from my nap in time I will go see the last 10-15 minutes, as those tend to be more interesting.
 
Personally I believe congresses are contributing to the diminishing of salsa. Well not the congresses, but the filming of workshops at congresses. People think they can just go on youtube to learn, which of course is not true. So teachers, classes and the congresses themselves suffer. Some people don't think they need to go to class when they have the internet. And I believe it unfair to the instructors, even if its the review at the end of class, to post videos of their work so people can copy their work for free. I think cameras should be banned.

Yeah, I was also thinking about this problem. Indeed, I remember that on a WCS congress in the neighbor country it was explicitly stated that the filming isn't allowed.

Problem is that after attending 5, 10, 15, 20 ... classes on the congress you can't remember a thing if you don't film. It's different if you take one private and have the time to rethink and rehearse it afterwards.

Also, it still looks a bit silly to me that at the end of the class 100 people are filming. Wouldn't it be better if it was filmed by the professional and the copy included in the price of the full pass?

On the other side, filming during the class usually isn't allowed, so explanations given by the instructors are rarely found on the youtube - you can find only demo of the pattern at the end, which really isn't that much, and 3/4 of those patterns shown on the congresses are unusable in social dancing anyway. Technique classes are rare on the congresses and is very unlikely you can find explanations during whole such class on youtube (several months ago I was searching for some technique explanations about kizomba from congresses but found nothing)
 
Also, it still looks a bit silly to me that at the end of the class 100 people are filming. Wouldn't it be better if it was filmed by the professional and the copy included in the price of the full pass?
IIRC, the San Francisco congress used to have a strict-no recording at the end of class policy but had a DVD available of all the instructors demonstrating what they were teaching (at a price).
 
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. Technique classes are rare on the congresses and is very unlikely you can find explanations during whole such class on youtube (several months ago I was searching for some technique explanations about kizomba from congresses but found nothing)

Ya know what "they " say.. If ya cant teach technique, teach steps .
 
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