Has your local salsa scene contracted over the last few years?

[vit]

In my venue majority of members of those "performance teams" indeed dance socially. And of course, they have drills, work on fundamentals etc (again, quality of this depends on the teacher). But ... it's still different. In performance dancing, point is on "external". So it's mostly how it looks - precision of movements, speed, energy, exaggerating things, in short everything that will make some impression to the guy in the last row (or adjudicator on the other side of the floor if it's about competition), while there usually isn't that much point on how it feels to the partner. While these are nice-to-have qualities for any dancer, social dancing has slightly different priorities

There was a girl in my venue I have been enjoying dancing with since she was a beginner (without significant previous dancing knowledge). She had really nice and fluid body movement and was very musical. And she also liked dancing with me. Eventually she joined local performance group and gained much energy, speed, precision, variety etc. I liked that, it felt similar to what I was used to dancing as b/room competitor and later with ex competitors. But, somehow, I started getting an impression that something is missing - our social dancing became too technically oriented and lacking "soul" / "sabor" / "whatever", and also, I didn't like her body movement anymore, as it became somehow unnatural. So it wasn't that fun anymore (although she didn't change her attitude like most other "performers", at least not in relation with me). But after about a year, she quit with that group and our dancing gradually became more to my liking again, so now it's better than ever.

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

In my venue majority of members of those "performance teams" indeed dance socially. And of course, they have drills, work on fundamentals etc (again, quality of this depends on the teacher). But ... it's still different. In performance dancing, point is on "external". So it's mostly how it looks - precision of movements, speed, energy, exaggerating things, in short everything that will make some impression to the guy in the last row (or adjudicator on the other side of the floor if it's about competition), while there usually isn't that much point on how it feels to the partner. While these are nice-to-have qualities for any dancer, social dancing has slightly different priorities

There was a girl in my venue I have been enjoying dancing with since she was a beginner (without significant previous dancing knowledge). She had really nice and fluid body movement and was very musical. And she also liked dancing with me. Eventually she joined local performance group and gained much energy, speed, precision, variety etc. I liked that, it felt similar to what I was used to dancing as b/room competitor and later with ex competitors. But, somehow, I started getting an impression that something is missing - our social dancing became too technically oriented and lacking "soul" / "sabor" / "whatever", and also, I didn't like her body movement anymore, as it became somehow unnatural. So it wasn't that fun anymore (although she didn't change her attitude like most other "performers", at least not in relation with me). But after about a year, she quit with that group and our dancing gradually became more to my liking again, so now it's better than ever.

Excellent post!!Just about sums it up.

 

[Kading]

As long as you continue social dancing, joining a performance team shouldn't be that much of a problem in my opinion. The problem is that most people can't do both because of time constraints and sacrifice social dancing for performance training. That and what vit and Sabrosura have been saying about external etc.

 

[1 Improbable Salsero]

There was a girl in my venue I have been enjoying dancing with since she was a beginner (without significant previous dancing knowledge). She had really nice and fluid body movement and was very musical. And she also liked dancing with me. Eventually she joined local performance group and gained much energy, speed, precision, variety etc. I liked that, it felt similar to what I was used to dancing as b/room competitor and later with ex competitors. But, somehow, I started getting an impression that something is missing - our social dancing became too technically oriented and lacking "soul" / "sabor" / "whatever", and also, I didn't like her body movement anymore, as it became somehow unnatural. So it wasn't that fun anymore (although she didn't change her attitude like most other "performers", at least not in relation with me). But after about a year, she quit with that group and our dancing gradually became more to my liking again, so now it's better than ever.[/quote]

Wow. I could have written that word for word.... the exact same thing happened to me. When a beginning dancer goes straight to the performance team I wish them well but underneath my breath mutter "dang, one less social dancer." I hope performance team dancers
keep dancing socially, I think they miss out if they don't .

 

[alvinthethird]

As long as you continue social dancing, joining a performance team shouldn't be that much of a problem in my opinion. The problem is that most people can't do both because of time constraints and sacrifice social dancing for performance training.

There is a new gal in the scene, young, very talented-she asked my opinion on joining a team, and I told her something similar to this. I'm something of an outlier in Chicago having never been on a team, I have seen enough people who have been and stagnate socially. Alternatively i suggested she find a mentor, and if she has particular issues with her social dancing, work them out in private lessons. For the time being shes not joining a team, which means Chicago isn't losing another follow! success!

 

[Salsa Student]

Almost twice as many leads as follows last night and only a couple of the follows were beyond the beginner stage. After years of work I think my dancing is finally starting to get to where I envisioned it when I started, but it seems like the local scene has imploded.

 

[GForce85]

Almost twice as many leads as follows last night and only a couple of the follows were beyond the beginner stage. After years of work I think my dancing is finally starting to get to where I envisioned it when I started, but it seems like the local scene has imploded.

I know this feeling well, and it's the reason that I actually started learning hip hop after years of just talking about how I wanted to. I always tell my leader friends that we're like the last dinosaurs that were around when the asteroid hit; everything was going great for those who came before, but fate had to crap on us haha. Even crueler is the fact that when I go to hip hop classes there are generally somewhere around 3-6 guys and 20+ women . I'm trying to stay sharp for when I go to Japan in October, but I think after that I may need a sabbatical from the scene just to let the frustration die down a bit.

 

[Salsa Student]

Seriously thinking about switching my primary focus to AT.

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

Almost twice as many leads as follows last night and only a couple of the follows were beyond the beginner stage. After years of work I think my dancing is finally starting to get to where I envisioned it when I started, but it seems like the local scene has imploded.

Come on it was just one night and he was playing the dreaded "**MANTICA"!!!!

 

[1 Improbable Salsero]

". I always tell my leader friends that we're like the last dinosaurs that were around when the asteroid hit; everything was going great for those who came before, but fate had to crap on us haha."

I had my brush with the coming Salsapocalypse last week.

1.) at my normal weekly venue it suddenly went from 80% salsa to salsa then bachata then kizomba then merengue . ... then Repeat; all night long. To call this
"Salsa Night" is a misrepresentation - this is "Latin Mix" at it's worse.

2.) then, I went to a long lived well known "salsa" venue (The Graduate in Davis) for the first time to find the exact same mix (except more bachata than salsa, with the addition of - get this - hip hop.

Given the choice of moving to the bay area or learning to like some other dance I don't know what do.

 

[GForce85]

". I always tell my leader friends that we're like the last dinosaurs that were around when the asteroid hit; everything was going great for those who came before, but fate had to crap on us haha."

I had my brush with the coming Salsapocalypse last week.

1.) at my normal weekly venue it suddenly went from 80% salsa to salsa then bachata then kizomba then merengue . ... then Repeat; all night long. To call this
"Salsa Night" is a misrepresentation - this is "Latin Mix" at it's worse.

2.) then, I went to a long lived well known "salsa" venue (The Graduate in Davis) for the first time to find the exact same mix (except more bachata than salsa, with the addition of - get this - hip hop.

Given the choice of moving to the bay area or learning to like some other dance I don't know what do.

Oh my goodness I would quit. For now kizomba is growing separately and has not yet penetrated salsa nights, but I've been saying that if it ever does then I'm out (and I've heard murmurs that a kizomba song or two has been heard in at least one salsa night so it's a real possibility). It's bad enough that the salsa is watered down by bachata, but if they want to dilute it even further with kizomba then it's not even worth my time. This is why I wish bachata would have developed on its own instead of developing through people whining to have it played more and more at salsa events. Then there would be infrastructure for bachata/kizomba nights that are separate from salsa/cha cha nights and I wouldn't be a radicalized anti-bachatero (although I still wouldn't like the music).

And while I like hip hop music, it has as much place at a salsa night as kizomba -- NONE. How hard is it to just specialize the freaking events??? If you go to a hip hop club you will NEVER hear salsa. And that's the way it should be since it's a hip hop club. They don't dump in several other genres that are loosely related if that. Only in the salsa scene is this foolishness acceptable.[/rant]

 

[GroovyMambo]

Almost twice as many leads as follows last night and only a couple of the follows were beyond the beginner stage. After years of work I think my dancing is finally starting to get to where I envisioned it when I started, but it seems like the local scene has imploded.

While I largely agree with your sentiment, as I have expressed in previous posts, I don't think things are as bad as you think they are. My impression is that the more experienced dancers rarely attend the BDS social, Monday CB practica, or the SDS Wednesday social. Have you considered going to CB on a Thursday? While it pales in comparison with Mambo Pica Pica or AVS, for that matter, it is significantly better than the early week events. I went to CB last Thursday and had a good time.

 

[Salsa Student]

While I largely agree with your sentiment, as I have expressed in previous posts, I don't think things are as bad as you think they are. My impression is that the more experienced dancers rarely attend the BDS social, Monday CB practica, or the SDS Wednesday social. Have you considered going to CB on a Thursday? While it pales in comparison with Mambo Pica Pica or AVS, for that matter, it is significantly better than the early week events. I went to CB last Thursday and had a good time.

I haven't been to Thursday CB in a while. Was just talking to MAMBO_CEC about that and he was kind of giving me a wave off. I'll have to swing by there after my tango class sometime.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Add in Reggaeton into the mix and welcome to my world!

I'm not even joking. This is pretty much how it is in most places i've been to in Europe. I guess it's easier to appease the majority who find Salsa music absolutely frightening to dance to!

People here will gladly pay 25 euros entrance fee for a Kizombie/Bachata party so long as it's marketed as a sensual party (*gag*), yet won't show up for a 5 euros Salsa only party with curb stomping tunes.

::bangs head against wall::

Oh my goodness I would quit. For now kizomba is growing separately and has not yet penetrated salsa nights, but I've been saying that if it ever does then I'm out (and I've heard murmurs that a kizomba song or two has been heard in at least one salsa night so it's a real possibility). It's bad enough that the salsa is watered down by bachata, but if they want to dilute it even further with kizomba then it's not even worth my time. This is why I wish bachata would have developed on its own instead of developing through people whining to have it played more and more at salsa events. Then there would be infrastructure for bachata/kizomba nights that are separate from salsa/cha cha nights and I wouldn't be a radicalized anti-bachatero (although I still wouldn't like the music).

And while I like hip hop music, it has as much place at a salsa night as kizomba -- NONE. How hard is it to just specialize the freaking events??? If you go to a hip hop club you will NEVER hear salsa. And that's the way it should be since it's a hip hop club. They don't dump in several other genres that are loosely related if that. Only in the salsa scene is this foolishness acceptable.[/rant]

 

[toan-hoang]

I am just curious, has anyone on this forum actually tried to grow the scene that they are in or do something to stop the scene from shrinking? If so what did you do? Are there any tips that you can share?

 

[Benergy]

I'm not sure if our salsa scene in Brisbane (Australia) where I dance has contracted. I've heard people say it has. The zouk scene has really exploded since Kadu and Larissa settled here. I think it's drawn some salsa dancers from salsa to zouk. I would say the salsa scene here has been about the same though I couldn't quote you any figures...

 

[Salsa Student]

I am just curious, has anyone on this forum actually tried to grow the scene that they are in or do something to stop the scene from shrinking? If so what did you do? Are there any tips that you can share?

I made several suggestions to one of the local promoters about how they could make their event more attractive to dancers (none of which were implemented), and I've done more promotion of events that I've liked than the promoter has.

Haven't actually tried to start an event, but since the last local social that's started looks to be still born I don't think just randomly starting an event is part of the solution.

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

I made several suggestions to one of the local promoters about how they could make their event more attractive to dancers (none of which were implemented), and I've done more promotion of events that I've liked than the promoter has.

Haven't actually tried to start an event, but since the last local social that's started looks to be still born I don't think just randomly starting an event is part of the solution.

Still born? Cafe clave?

 

[Salsa Student]

Still born? Cafe clave?

Sueños de Salsa, on Wednesdays. Jury's still out though.
Cafe Clave's been around for a while, but two of the last three times I went there you could count the number of people on one hand, so I'm not sure how long it's going to stay open.

 

[SalsaGipsy]

I am just curious, has anyone on this forum actually tried to grow the scene that they are in or do something to stop the scene from shrinking? If so what did you do? Are there any tips that you can share?

You can check this thread, there are several stories of people trying to improve their scenes. Although they are all for smaller scenes, so it won't be applicable for London.

Our story is here and then here.

The continuation is that the school grew stronger and stronger, we started having semi-regular parties, there was a Bachata weekend with guest teachers from Finland which was very successful and other events. Currently I am not there anymore but the things are developing even further with a dedicated studio with a wider range of classes, parties at different venues and special events with guest teachers. So, a real success story.