For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your follow?

[smiling28]

:lol: That would be tough to do... I did notice that more "plain" looking girls were on the floor than the really hot ones. I thought maybe the guys were intimidated?

Maybe the 'hot' ones were new to the scene, getting all dolled up to go dancing? It's possible that people who go out all the time quit making an effort to look good.

I know I look pretty awful when I go dancing. I don't do 'hot' at the best of times, but for salsa I am usually wearing a battered tank top and jeans, plus I am a sweaty mess after ten minutes anyway. If I went out less often (or if I felt I wasn't getting asked enough) I'd probably feel it was more 'special' and make more of an effort to look good.

I think the #1 determinant of whether someone is going to dance with you is whether he is your buddy already or not. It's so much easier for them to ask; they know you, they know what they're going to get, they don't have to worry about rejection. A new dancer is a total black box - could be good, could be awful - and represents a possible rejection.

When I'm home I get asked all the time, not because of my dance skill (or lack thereof) or my appearance but because I know lots and lots of guys. When I'm out of town I get asked much less often - usually have to start by asking for at least a few dances myself, then the guys may start to get the picture. What I look for in this situation is a guy who doesn't look like an arm-yanker, isn't half of an established couple, and is dancing with women about my level or a little below.

Funny, Salsa has actually made me want to look my BEST all the time. I am getting a new wardrobe (about time). I am checking myself a lot more before going out. Most of all, I am caring about my SHOES. Realising how important they are aesthetically and functionally.

I am sure you look good no matter what you wear so can get away with it though

 

[smiling28]

But I would also wonder why the "fantastic dancer" seems to be bored

From my experiences its because they have done this before - many, many times. There are no new patterns you can throw at them that they haven't already done - there isn't any type of styling that you can do that they haven't already seen a million times - there mind starts to wonder - they don't even really need to be present because they can follow the patterns without thinking or even paying attention and they can add in their own styling without really even thinking about it because they have done it so many times - they are simply going through the motions.

And in my scenes the advanced dancers have danced with all of the advanced guys many many times. So not only are they following the same patterns they are dancing with the same people in the same clubs - it can get boring.

Thats been my experience.

A local 'pro' told me last night it is because they are in the zone and they know precisely every movement. They could close their eyes if they did not have to worry about other couples.

I always hope to have strong connection and enjoyment with my partner no matter the supposed level and experience of my dancing! At the end of the day, we spend more time not dancing then dancing in our lives.

BE NICE

 

[smiling28]

Re: For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your fol

Just curious... when out social dancing, what is the first thing that makes you want to ask a girl to dance? Whom would you ask first:

1. a really enthusiastic beginner or
2. a fantastic dancer who seems almost bored

Also, what role do looks play into it? A good-looking girl who dances at an intermediate level, or a plainer-looking but amazing dancer?

I know the average guy at the average club might go for the hotter girl, but I think all of you salseros seem to dance to a different beat, so to speak

Great question, BRILLIANT replies!

Not sure how best to answer as it is not a rational logical process for me. ALL ABOUT THE MOMENT. My partner chooses me without asking me. Just by being there at the exact moment.

Now, the music COMMANDS me to get out there and SHOWER in it. So, I look to grab someone to share the music and the shower..................................ok, so my metaphor needs work

I usually ask whoever takes my fancy for the moment. Sometimes a beginner/sometimes advanced/all different.

That is at the club.

That said, in my rational non dancing state of mind, I offer this:

- I try to dance with beginners early as they generally have a dance or a look then leave whilst the advanced girls are around later.
- I generally ask some of the girls I have danced with before for a dance 'later'. Then find them at the right moment
- Looks. Do not really care. About the dance, not the wrapping.

If anything, unless they have a great personality, I generally leave the 'good looking' typical girls alone. Most guys fight over and queue up to dance with them. Meanwhile, I just make sure I am on the floor as much as possible with whoever wants it the most or enjoys it.

*sidenote: In my very short time dancing, I find a lot of these good looking girls that do not really LOVE Salsa end up getting bored very quickly as they get a LOT of attention at first so plateau very quickly as opposed to a slow gradual improvement and exposure to salsa.

A guy at my salsa venue summed it up pretty well. EVERY girl there is amazing. They look their absolute best. Either by enjoying their dancing or preparing themselves to look good to go out. He said that showed respect for the guys etc. Not sure how much I care about that. Will dance regardless, but it is nice and I can confirm that most of the girls at my clubs are gorgeous!

 

[noobster]

Re: For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your fol

Skill level (intermediate/advanced) & amount of fun she having is what i look for. Of course i notice looks, but that doesnt affect my decision, unless shes wearing cute shoes & has a nice pedicure like noobster lol

OneCent, that is too funny because after all this salsa, my shoes are a total wreck and so are my feet. I'm considering shelling out for a new pair of shoes soon, too bad that's not an option with the feet.

I am sure you look good no matter what you wear so can get away with it though

Ignorance is bliss, thou flatterer.

I actually wore a dress tonight in honor of this thread (and the warm weather). Of course it is now a sweaty rag, good thing it wasn't a *nice* dress.

 

[KP-salsa]

Gotta say, this thread can be switched around. Followers can be just as shallow as leaders in the criteria they use to choose their partner. Tall, muscular, gorgeous guys with flowing locks and rogueish smiles with two left feet get way more dances than the shy improver geek or short chubby lad.

 

[chrisk]

Re: Desireable followers

The second thing I look for is how she moves. I'll watch her dance with another person and see how she moves, how much she wrestles or flows with lead and follow and if she can stay on the beat. It doesn't count if the leader is pulling her off. If she's really really good, I don't waste her time dancing with her as I have nothing that would engage her. A lot of the places I go to have expert, almost professional level dancers.

Why do you think that you have nothing to engage her? While she might know all the moves that you are going to lead, there's also the connection that you are having with the girl when you dance. And I think that having fun on the dancefloor with a good connection is as important as how many moves you lead and how complex they might be. So I would ask the "almost professional level dancers" anyway. Maybe we can still have some great time on the dancefloor even with her knowing all the moves. And I also dancing with such a girl will help me find out if my lead is really good.

 

[chrisk]

But I would also wonder why the "fantastic dancer" seems to be bored

From my experiences its because they have done this before - many, many times. There are no new patterns you can throw at them that they haven't already done - there isn't any type of styling that you can do that they haven't already seen a million times - there mind starts to wonder - they don't even really need to be present because they can follow the patterns without thinking or even paying attention and they can add in their own styling without really even thinking about it because they have done it so many times - they are simply going through the motions.

Thanks for you answer. I can understand that the patterns and the styling might be very familiar for them. But isn't the connection with the dancer and the way you both react to the music also important and keep you from getting bored?

I wonder because even when I see professionals dance with non-professionals, they seem to enjoy the time on the dance floor and not look bored in any way. So I tend to think that patterns and styling are not everything to impress or engage a "fantastic dancer".

 

[AndrewS]

Re: For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your fol

Just curious... when out social dancing, what is the first thing that makes you want to ask a girl to dance? Whom would you ask first:

1. a really enthusiastic beginner or
2. a fantastic dancer who seems almost bored

Also, what role do looks play into it? A good-looking girl who dances at an intermediate level, or a plainer-looking but amazing dancer?

I know the average guy at the average club might go for the hotter girl, but I think all of you salseros seem to dance to a different beat, so to speak

As someone said earlier, I tend to ask people I already know. Looks don't really come into it then. But given the two choices I would go for the advanced dancer with the thought that maybe I can lead something that will brighten up her night.

Having said that, on Monday I had a dance which was a disaster in terms of leading and following but she had a beaming smile the whole time and was singing along to the song so it was still fun.

 

[irishgirl]

Gotta say, this thread can be switched around. Followers can be just as shallow as leaders in the criteria they use to choose their partner. Tall, muscular, gorgeous guys with flowing locks and rogueish smiles with two left feet get way more dances than the shy improver geek or short chubby lad.

for me not 100% true, yes if there's a cute guy dancing on the floor i'll instantly look but i'll also watch and if he sucks as a dancer I wont go near him, i like my shoulders intact.

I now totally choose on ability to dance, don't care what you look like.

 

[La Bailarina Nueva]

Gotta say, this thread can be switched around. Followers can be just as shallow as leaders in the criteria they use to choose their partner. Tall, muscular, gorgeous guys with flowing locks and rogueish smiles with two left feet get way more dances than the shy improver geek or short chubby lad.

for me not 100% true, yes if there's a cute guy dancing on the floor i'll instantly look but i'll also watch and if he sucks as a dancer I wont go near him, i like my shoulders intact.

I now totally choose on ability to dance, don't care what you look like.

I have to agree, although I follow the words of Ismael Otero, who said, "Dance with everyone and their mother." Seems to be good advice and has worked so far. Of course, now I will have to start doing the asking myself I can see that because I am new to the scene, I won't get asked as much probably as known dancers.

 

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Gotta say, this thread can be switched around. Followers can be just as shallow as leaders in the criteria they use to choose their partner. Tall, muscular, gorgeous guys with flowing locks and rogueish smiles with two left feet get way more dances than the shy improver geek or short chubby lad.

I'm NOT short!
And I get lots of dances

 

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Re: For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your fol

Just curious... when out social dancing, what is the first thing that makes you want to ask a girl to dance? Whom would you ask first:

1. a really enthusiastic beginner or
2. a fantastic dancer who seems almost bored

Whichever of them asks me first.
Actually can I hold out for an enthusiastic, fantastic dancer?

Also, what role do looks play into it? A good-looking girl who dances at an intermediate level, or a plainer-looking but amazing dancer?

I know the average guy at the average club might go for the hotter girl, but I think all of you salseros seem to dance to a different beat, so to speak

I'm a bloke. I like good looking women. I like dance connection more.
I used to get intimidated by good looking women, but no longer. Looks are secondary to dance connection. Definitely.

 

[AndrewD]

How you look is important, but in the sense of looking happy and up for a dance. In this respect an enthusiastic beginner will always catch my eye before a moody salsa veteran.

To be honest salseras who trade on their looks bore me – they tend to flounce around doing things that they consider sexy and make little or no attempt to connect. They will get a first dance, but frequently it will also be the last.

Mmm – a slight rant…so as a counter view. Last night I had a dance disaster, all my fault though – the salsera in question was both beautiful and skilled, but she was also incredibly tolerant of my mistakes and smiled throughout. She could sense my confidence was draining away and was making every effort to try and bring me out of my panic. Kudos to her – she’ll probably run a mile if she sees me again, but for those four minutes she gave 100% and really tried to make our dance enjoyable, despite my impression of a headless chicken.

 

[lyndwode]

Well...When I am out in the local scene, the music plays a big roll. Some days I sit around, that is to say

2. a fantastic dancer who seems almost bored

hihi 8)

and wait for a good song (some of our DJs havent caught on that they are spinning for a room full of people...)
Then when I hear a song come on, that makes me wanna dance, I look to my left, then to my ringt, and if there is no one there that I want to dance with, I stand up (I am quite tall, so I have a good overview!) and look for one of my "regulars", lets call them category 1...
If none is to be found (if they are all dancing) I go to category 2, good or intermediate dancers with whom I dont normally dance with too much, for whatever reason.
If that fails (the song is half over by now...) Category 3 would have to be my dance students or some hot girl just sitting around, unless my GF is looking hihii
Often I push up Category 3 above 1 when the music is just OK, and I want to dance with some of my students, if they are just sitting around.
Category 0 would have to be newbies, good dancers that are just in town for the weekend or something, usually you can see the lineup I will almost always wait for a really cool songh though!

The thing about dancing with students, is that they always feel put on the spot, like it's a test or something...First, they either pop their eyeballs out :shock: and say ME????? or try to run away...
Once I asked this girl to dace (the fact that she was a perfect 10.5 was beside the fact, she could dance too ) And she said no 4 times in a row. At first I thought it was a blowoff, but once she finally said yes I asked her why she had initially said no:
"your a dance teacher!!! I was so afraid!!!! " hmmmm.

If I happen to be out of town there are 2 options...
Sometimes I just stang around observing the dancers, looking at their shoes :shock: If they've got latin shoes on, then I might ask them to dance! Or I watch the dance floor, for the good followers, then stalk them :roll:
Option 2 is based on pure looks, but I still watch how they dance...very rarely would I ask a pure beginner...
But if someone asks me to dance, I almost ALWAYS say yes!

 

[sweavo]

Interesting. I usually get asked so when it's time for me to do asking I try to find people who I know but who I haven't danced with for a long time. Failling that, I'll look for anyone whose body language speaks to me or whose face seems open. I like dignified but not haughty. I'll often not ask someone if it would leave her friend on her own, conversely if I see someone take one of a pair of girls from the side of the dance floor I'll quickly ask the other. I'll usually not ask anyone who's sitting down unless she's on the edge of her seat, and I'll rarely go far from the dance floor to find someone unless the song has particular meaning for us. It doesn't really make a difference to me about the skill/repertoire of the follow - chemistry is everything - but I will sometimes change my criteria depending on the track (some people I know like it fast and a bit rough, some are better choices for gentle songs)

 

[tj]

Re: For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your fol

Now, the music COMMANDS me to get out there and SHOWER in it. So, I look to grab someone to share the music and the shower..................................ok, so my metaphor needs work

And here I thought it was just sweat! :roll:

 

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

some people I know like it fast and a bit rough

Me! Me!

 

[SalsaGuy2006]

Re: For Leaders- answer honestly, how do you choose your fol

Just curious... when out social dancing, what is the first thing that makes you want to ask a girl to dance? Whom would you ask first:

1. a really enthusiastic beginner or
2. a fantastic dancer who seems almost bored

Also, what role do looks play into it? A good-looking girl who dances at an intermediate level, or a plainer-looking but amazing dancer?

I know the average guy at the average club might go for the hotter girl, but I think all of you salseros seem to dance to a different beat, so to speak

That's a great and relevant question, and I'm equally interested to see what responses are give.

Personally, I dance with a wide variety of women:
1. enthusiastic beginners - to encourage them and remind me where I came from.
2. fantastic dancer who seems almost bored - for the challenge of it!
3. a good-looking girl who dances at an intermediate level - for the same reasons above , and also because it would be stupid not to, just because she's good looking!
4. a plainer-looking but amazing dancer - because she's an amazing dancer - need i say more


Generally, I tend to go for ladies round about my height and body size - it works better , as I'm not a tall guy. However, it's not an absolute rule and I dance with different sized ladies. The only group I'm hesitant towards are the arrogant, conceited types. And also the teacher/show/competition type dancers - but only the ones with an evident bad attitude.

 

[narcosis]

I usually get asked so when it's time for me to do asking I try to find people who I know but who I haven't danced with for a long time.

Lucky you!!


Looks come in a distant second. I've had terrible dances with really pretty ladies before, in which my fingers nearly got snapped, yada yada. :shock: From then on I never relied on appearances anymore.

 

[Sabor]

given i have choices .. and all other things at par or thereabouts hypothetically ..

i will opt for the better dancer .. and that for me is mainly: light-smooth-musical- natural yet trained follow