desconocida
Son
I am not sure they're the ones setting the prices, my guess is, those come with the location. And I know some people did refill, so there must have been cold water.
Festival and Travel Planner 2025
- Thread starter azana
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RandomBeat
Changui
Funnily enough that was the exact same price and volume for water at the Amsterdam Salsa Festival. Is that the current maximum price EU dancers will tolerate?
It is venue policy. A lot of venues have such policy on this side of the pond too (very rarely for the water though).
I recall people filling water in empty bottles at Berlin. That was 8 years ago.
desconocida
Son
Let me ignite y'all's passion for this water topic even more: they actually charged €5.50 per bottle, but there was a €2 deposit (Pfand) on the empty bottle. The ladies working the bar were suuuuper friendly but not exactly very actively forthcoming with this information. Now guess how many foreigners did not bring back their bottles to claim their €2 (Germans are used to this practice)? Again, I do not think this was a deliberate measure on part of the location but the incentives were somewhat misaligned for the personnel.
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
Hmm. So they charged 2 euros deposit for each bottle but only had to pay 0.15-0.25 euros for each bottle to the distributor. So for every non-returned bottle they might have made 1.75 euros extra profit.
If the bottles ended up in regular trash there might be scavengers who collect them and turn them in at a supermarket to get the regular deposit back.
The venue probably has the €2 refund to encourage bottles to be returned for recycling. I
desconocida
Son
I think what happened is, and this is pure speculation but would make kinda sense to me, that some of the staff will walk around from time to time and collect obviously left behind bottles and pay themselves the deposit and share it as tipps. I know some people said somebody has taken their empty bottles. And humans react to incentives.
And yes, there was barely any waiting staff, so I think this was a measure first and foremost aimed at reducing personnel numbers.
RandomBeat
Changui
Looking at some of the posted vids of workshops today at the Legends Old School event the attendance numbers look very good.
RogueBlader
Son
A follow-up. The way one of the organisers laughed when I showed him this post told me all I needed to know.
Speaking of videographers , Super Mario has been outspoken lately on the impact of all the filming on social dancing and has said it's one reason he doesn't do congresses much anymore:
Sparked interesting debate. Gotta say I agree, mostly. I mean it's nice to have momentos but also it does make social dance feel like a performance and I can see why pros especially may feel reluctant. The Instagram poll ATM is very strongly leaning to anti social media, whether this is a sign of a wider backlash brewing or not I don't know.
On my wider scene, I noticed workshops and bootcamps (mostly bachata & zouk) are using an opportunity to be professionally filmed as a selling point. But the demographics for those dances skew much younger than salsa.
Sparked interesting debate. Gotta say I agree, mostly. I mean it's nice to have momentos but also it does make social dance feel like a performance and I can see why pros especially may feel reluctant. The Instagram poll ATM is very strongly leaning to anti social media, whether this is a sign of a wider backlash brewing or not I don't know.
On my wider scene, I noticed workshops and bootcamps (mostly bachata & zouk) are using an opportunity to be professionally filmed as a selling point. But the demographics for those dances skew much younger than salsa.
It’s important to distinguish that these are pros and are speaking from a place not many can relate to, which is having to be recorded a lot wherever they go because of their celebrity.
A regular person may want to have their video recorded because they just want a keepsake or memento. There’s also a subset of people (which I belong to) who ask to be recorded by a friend because it helps me study my dancing later. I actually encourage beginners to have videos of themselves so that they can learn from their mistakes. If someone asks me to record them dancing with someone else, I will take it for them no problem. I will do it for friends. Sometimes I will do it even when they didn’t explicitly ask for it. And I’m also on the receiving end of such videos. In all of these cases, the recipient is grateful for the courtesy of having their video taken. They can choose whether to post it to social media or not.
So yes, I get where the pros are coming when they say social media is killing the dancing (for them mostly), but they are talking from a very different perspective,where it’s intrusive for everyone involved, including the would be bystanders who get caught in a professionally shot video who didn’t ask to be in it.
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I like the fact they did this live discussion at Berlin festival - that may help to verbalize some things happening in the dance scene. As this forum shows there are points needing to be outspoken, so I think it's a good idea I would like to see at other congresses also.
Yes. I see mobile filming between amateurs very rarely happening even at festivals. You need to ask two persons which makes it complicated. Recently I was with two friends at a festival, so I asked them to film each other and for the first time since two years I got a film showing me doing social - that helps me a lot to see where am I at with my dancing. I guess many think to film yourself is a sign of vanity, but for me it's a form of learning. I do not upload it to social media.
WCS dancers use to film each other always at their competitions, so they always have films from themselves not older than two months. That may be one reason they often make faster progress in their dancing than all these salseros who think they do well but never have seen themselves on video.
People often say different than they actually do. I guess nobody would call himself a smartphone addict, but when I walk the street I see every youngster without exception staring on his phone while walking. That's a lost generation.
I can’t watch this clip on the browser. Most instagram clips can be watched on browser. When I select “continue in browser” all I see is very busy insta page with no audio but I can see the written (like close caption) words of what he is saying. It is difficult to follow because of the way close caption is presented and is too fast.
I don’t like being video’d when dancing. At least Steve leaves me alone. It is different matter when someone asks to be recorded. Then too, it is one partner who is asking and the other partner is stuck.
Then generation below age of 35 literally grew up with social media. They are used to social media being constant presence in their life. Due to it they have different mindset about social media and type of exposure it gives them at expense of privacy. LinkedIn which is professional network has become more like social media platforms. I see people documenting their professional journey on it with all the successes and setbacks. Building personal branding got enhancing professional opportunities is also big on LinkedIn. Therefore people are constantly posting content on it. Most of the content is crappy. I think under-35 feels compel to do everything publicly on the social media.
They have absorbed the message that to be invisible is negative. Invisibility inhibits their progress. While I haven’t really encountered it, a lot has been written in the press recently ability how Gen Z find in person social interactions difficult. Lately there is war going on between the Gen Z and millennials on the “Gen Z” stare. If you haven’t heard of it, look up the memes and debates going around about it.
Mario is right that only those two who are dancing know what is going on within the dance. That’s why when I have to critic a clip posted, I try to be explicit that it applies to only that particular clip. However without cameras too people judge your dancing from outside. It doesn’t get broadcasted but when people watch you they judge you. There judgement could be positive or negative. Mostly it is “don’t care “. Celebrities are definitely going to be judged whether they are recorded or not. It would be good to hear opinions about other celebrities who get recorded a lot.
If you are type who doesn’t like to be recorded, then it is easier to relate to others who don’t want to be.
This. For those who want to keep a memory or have a video to study, just ask a friend to record. However at the last SF SBK, there were too many friends recording on the crowded dance floor. Especially when dancing with a celebrity. All those “friends” by occupying dancers’ space were making it more difficult on already packed floor.
Yeah we all sign disclaimers that there is videography going on.
I have never been to an event where phones got in the way of the dancing. I hardly ever notice camera phones. The only time I notice video capture is when the hired videographers are looking to film artists, which is easy to avoid.
But maybe I just have a different tolerance. I don't mind amateur video. Having amateur video of an event is also helpful for letting me know who's going where.
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They are only famous because they got recorded a lot and were shared on social media. I have a difficult time believing anything that comes ourt of a celeb's Mouth. Super Mario is one of the first celebs that I found on YouTube back in 2007. I only know of him because of videos.
The younger generations are using social media a lot more and are amassing followers at an alarming rate. It's actually not so bad in Salsa. I find Bachata is way worse. There are so many wannabe artists in the Bachata world.
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It is the space that amateur recorders were occupying. When their attention is on the phone, they are not aware of obstructing the dancers’ space. When you have multiples of them on a crowded section of the floor, it makes for not so happy dancing experience. It is like driving Ferrari in intermittent traffic jams.
SF SBK already had 4 sets of professional videographers. Then there two or three others who were using phones with led lights. Then you had friends recording friends. Making it at least a dozen people recording any given time. When their professionals were recording other sections of the floor you still had 8-10 people recording where all the good dancers were dancing.
Your choice for good dancing then was to either find a good dancer on other sections of the floor. If you stayed away, you would probably end up getting about 10% good dances. Or catch a good dancer and ask them to dance with you away from the crowded section. Or dance where all good dancers were. That also meant having to deal with celebrities dancing in the same area of the floor. My estimate is that collectively good dancers spent 70%-80% of time dancing in crowded areas. And 20% of time on the side or back carpet areas which not many were dancing on. There was a lot of carpet area on the sides and the back. Which meant the people walking by were not interfering in your dance space. The wooden floors were all packed. The front carpet area was also equally packed. There was a small strip between the wooden floor area. About 4 feet wide. If you danced there, you could be interrupted by someone walking front to back or back to front.
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