Failure to Learn On2

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Rak Ataka Boom said:
I'm curious what methods instructors use when they know a student is switching front On1 to On2.

The first On2 instructor I attended confused the heck out of me because they seemed to focus mainly on the timing/count. I left the class with the feeling of "That's it? It's just a different count? Why would you do that?".

The 2nd On2 instructor I attended, specifically ignored the count in the beginning. He said we'll talk about it in the second class but first I want you "to learn the essence of the dance, it's movement, direction and rhythm" (I remember that phrase, it stuck in my head). I remember the big smile on my face when I left that class and how I was excited to go back for more. My username is a small nod to that class.
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We don't actually treat beginners and converters any differently. We insist that everyone goes to our foundation class. We use a mixture of ways to describe the rhythm.

&23-&67
Slow-Quick-Quick
Ku-Ku-Pa
Prepare-Action-Recover
 
salsamarty said:
Congratulations for going out to the social dancing and supporting your students. Unfortunately I don't see much of that here from instructors. That is, I don't see instructors out social dancing with regular people.
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Around here you see some instructors all the time, some almost never.
One of the things I find weird about the tango scene is that the instructors never dance with their students when they're out social dancing, in salsa when the instructors are out they all seem to be happy to spend part of their time dancing with their students.
 
Salsa Student said:
Around here you see some instructors all the time, some almost never.
One of the things I find weird about the tango scene is that the instructors never dance with their students when they're out social dancing, in salsa when the instructors are out they all seem to be happy to spend part of their time dancing with their students.
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I haven't met a single tango dancer that wasn't weird so that doesn't suprise me (sample size = 9 +/-)
 
Kading said:
I haven't met a single tango dancer that wasn't weird so that doesn't suprise me (sample size = 9 +/-)
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Well at least one of the things that the local tango community is doing right is that they have a venue where once a month beginners get in free and are given little beginner tags with the more advanced dancers expected to ask the beginners. Getting away from the thread topic though.
 
flowrite said:
I'm on topic I'm talking about my failure and is it worth the effort? After all motivation was mentioned, that's important. What motivates, why bother? Seems pretty key to me.
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Why not bother? Sure there are those who dance on2 and have no clue about the music, and on1 dancers who are very familiar with the instruments and their patterns, as well as with great musicality.

I dance both on1 and on2, my preference being on2. Not because it's "cool", or "elitist". To make such observations I do consider a bit insulting, to be honest. Sometimes it's better to reserve judgement and not make grand statements without truly understanding a subject - in your case, why people genuinely prefer dancing on2.

Ultimately unless you try, you cannot know whether you'd truly prefer one style or one timing over another. Why ask? Why not simply commit? In the end you'll know for sure, and you won't lose anything. If anything, you'll gain more diverse dancing skills, will improve your command of timing, will improve your understanding of dancing to the conga (tumbao 2 congas patttern), and appreciate that diversity ultimately makes you a better dancer.
 
Smejmoon said:
Back to topic.

Invest more money in clothing than in dance classes. On2 dancing is mostly about looking cool. Check latest fashions from on2 salsa capital Milano. Red pants are passe. If you're too lazy for this use classical clothing. Suits, vests, jackets. Try 30s look.
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You never give up :rofl:
 
One little observation. In on2 intro class we have played a song where the conga was more prominent so that everybody can hear the 2 in the music. They didn't. You could see how they were trying but at the end they admitted that they can't hear it. My guess would be that it is better to start with live percussion or something like the salsa beat machine until they get used to the pattern and then ease them into the music. But many probably still won't hear the 2 in the music by the end of the class.
 
SalsaGipsy said:
One little observation. In on2 intro class we have played a song where the conga was more prominent so that everybody can hear the 2 in the music. They didn't. You could see how they were trying but at the end they admitted that they can't hear it. My guess would be that it is better to start with live percussion or something like the salsa beat machine until they get used to the pattern and then ease them into the music. But many probably still won't hear the 2 in the music by the end of the class.
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One of the simplest methods for indentifying "2", is thru Son.
Most of it, has a very dominant "4". Thus.. hold "1".. break on 2 .
If they do not like to "hold" on the 4(1) , then introduce the "tap"on 1.
 
Yeah, introducing the tap would likely be of help to correct misunderstandings about on2 in many parts of Europe
 
terence said:
One of the simplest methods for indentifying "2", is thru Son.
Most of it, has a very dominant "4". Thus.. hold "1".. break on 2 .
If they do not like to "hold" on the 4(1) , then introduce the "tap"on 1.
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Our goal was for them to hear the 2 in the music. Of course they can always count from 1, 4 or whatever but I think it's important that they understand that this is not just for the same of using a different count or steps but that there is something in the music that supports this.

It was also ET2, not Power2, so, there will be a step rather than a tap.
 
I'm with Terence, and have said this before, Son is your best friend. If there are any decent classes to head to, do so. I got a handle on Son before I looked at NYon2, but when I got to it, I honestly had very few issues.

Casino/Son, in general may indeed be very useful timing wise, the basic step of proper Casino being arguably somewhat 'on2.'

When it comes to switching between on1 and on2, well once your body is happy switching entire dances and timings tween Salsa, Casino and Son, it's really no issue to make a small switch of time inside the same dance.

I don't think I'm a special snowflake.

I genuinely believe that a good on1 dancer (good timing, technique, listens to the music), will never struggle to make the transition. Son will hugely help you break down any bad habits coming from muscle memory, but otherwise just practice, listen, and break on2.
 
Thanks for your responses all, some very nice responses here and surprisingly we got to 40ish comments before going off topic :)
 
flowrite said:
If I knew what the goal was I'd persevere. I'm sorry if I mentioned the "snob" thing but in conversation with other dancers, I do pick this up
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Like I said before there is some element of this in my experiences, especially where dancing On2 is only advertised for "ADVANCED" On1 dancers....I heard comments from people who should know better that quote "dancing On2 is for experts".
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
Like I said before there is some element of this in my experiences, especially where dancing On2 is only advertised for "ADVANCED" On1 dancers....I heard comments from people who should know better that quote "dancing On2 is for experts".
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School I'm currently in has On1 begin , on1 impr, on1 interm, on1 adv, on2 master class.
I'm glad I can get by in the master class, because there is no way to 'work your way in' if you don't have the level already. It's pretty lame structure.
 
vit said:
Maybe we need a thread about what is minimal and maximal teaching experience for a good dance teacher
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I think its got to be a combination of time and training. Difficult to assess, but results speak the loudest.
And, someones " good " is anothers " bad/ average ". like music, subjective.
 
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