timberamayor
Son Montuno
Wasn't it Arsenio who first added congas to son? Prior to that it was just bongo.
Etymology of the term contra tiempo, why contra tiempo = on2
- Thread starter SoFloW
- Start date
Yes, but not in the mid 90ies?
timberamayor
Son Montuno
LOL yeah he wasn't born in the 1890s yet.
timberamayor
Son Montuno
Another good video of son timing and body movement
1derpalm
Son Montuno
I
Have a d vs from boogaloo production's with an old Cuban man. He shows the step timing for danzon, son and chachachá. For danzon and son, it's shown to there respective caves (he commences to the LEFT side on the 3rd strike, vs my teach going right however). It's in the chachachá that he says the rhythm lies in the tumbao.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Definitely looks like real Cuba Son to me. And the step to Clave timing is 100% correct. Botice how she starts on the 4 or 8, depending on where one thinks the Clave starts.
I was referring to stepping back on 1 and then breaking back on 2 part as unique/creation. That is what I consider characterstics unique to ET2. If I recall, @terence saying others would step in place on 1 or to the side on 1 before breaking back on 2.
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That is what I was conjugating. And why it won't exist.
My impression as well that Mambo was not danced socially there. I haven't been there and don't know how Mambo started in NYC. Not have I seen video. Hence my question, if it was danced as a niche. Was son modified to Mambo in NYC or was it already modified in Cuba before import to NYC. Or whether the Mambo craze ever went back to Cuba from NYC (at least before the revolution in early sixties).
granrey
Son Montuno
Is there a video where I can visualize this?
Live2dance
Son Montuno
The video above shows nicely the contratiempo.
granrey
Son Montuno
is that contratiempo then?
Well, what I'm seeing them doing at the beginning is a Cumbia secuence but the break steps are happening on beats 4 and 8 plus the "steps in place" are replaced with "side steps".
Btw, whoever translated this video missed to translate the leader counting which is very important (@30secs). He says "1,2,3 he". He let's the first two beats go (like P2 dancers do when they let 1 beat go), then he does a "side step" on beat 3 and break back on 4.
Again this is the On1 Cumbia secuence delayed by two beats and the "steps in place" replaced with "side steps".
At least that's what I see. I'll watch it again tomorrow.
I think we are getting in the "weeds" as to where to begin. The more important thing is the stress note on 4 ( hold 1 ). If one has a problem with this method then just start side on 1 break back on 2. And, I wish people would NOT use the word count 8. It.s still a 4 but the 2nd bar. The numbers only represent the construction of an octave but are separate in 2 sets of 4 .Counting in beats and bars ( for a Prof and really a dancer ! ) is very important in phrasing and also for isolation ( as in identifying specific passages in the music ).
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Live2dance
Son Montuno
What I see is her making the first step on the 3 hit of the clave 3rd side (which is count of 4) and then I see hip action and breaking on 2. I thought the dancing to music did the same but with YT video you sometimes have sound shifts.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Some Cubans (and probably others) count 123 123 despite what count they're on because that's how many steps they're taking I guess.
timberamayor
Son Montuno
The Cubans I studied under years ago (1999- early 2000s) counted 123, 123. Or very rarely 123456 - the number of steps you take. The 123 567 count by Cubans I only saw after years. I suspect they got exposed to the US way of counting in international congresos etc and picked that up in order to be able to communicate with people who had learned to count that way. I had one teacher he would not allow counting in class at all.
granrey
Son Montuno
I get what you are saying but he is not holding just one beat, he is holding the first two beats of the bar. Which, for what I'm reading you and others, he might just be doing the counting wrong.
He is likely just holding the first beat, which would make a P2 on a Cumbia secuence replacing "steps in place" with "side steps"
Still trying to figure out now why people say contratiempo is different than P2 or On1. When this video shows is the same secuence.
You completely misunderstood what I wrote. I said to " COMMENCE "and from that point onwards, yes, holding on 4 and 1 ( I have said this numerous times on the site ) so what you wrote is getting into the weeds. I look at steps from a teaching perspective and look for the simplest way to achieve a desired result. The bigger question is ; does one commence moving left, or right ? that is what determines the direction of clave for those that care. To my thinking. the left side represents the 1st bar ( like in salsa ) which would be a forward break and one could argue , but, the backwards motion also could represent the back break in salsa. However if one commenced on the 4 that could indicate the 1st or 2nd bar and this where the clave comes into play ( no pun )
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It's not about the sequence but the beat on which the break occurs. As I previously stated, the "1" is dominant ( the downbeat ) so one would think that this would be the point to use for breaks.. but... the clave says other wise.. ergo, contra tiempo..I think it is important to make this point; The most important point is keeping to the same break point (1,2, or 3 ) consistent thruout the dance, in other words STAY on time. I'm not saying that one cannot change from 1 to 2 during the course of a song if warranted .