Can you have a great dance without a great song?

[DJ Yuca]

As I got grumpier people accused me of being a snob... I said not really. I just listen and I dance how the music makes me feel. This music doesn't make me want to dance salsa. If you order coffee and you get tea, does it make you a snob when you complain?

It's NOT snobbery. Looking down on proper salsa that's commercially successful, looking down on salsa romantica, being intolerant of other Latin music (e.g. bachata or merengue), or only enjoying NY salsa, could reasonably be considered snobbish. But not enjoying R&B salsa for the majority of the night? That's just an inevitable reaction if you're into salsa music as well as dancing. As you say, it does not inspire good salsa dancing.

A lot of people who dance to this music also dislike it and prefer real salsa, they just dance to it because it's forced on them, so don't think you're alone or it's only trainspotters who share these views, there's loads of us out there being ignored by many of the promoters.

Watch your analogy though - I hope you're not implying that tea is inferior to coffee. I'm a man who likes his tea.

 

[sweavo]

Watch your analogy though - I hope you're not implying that tea is inferior to coffee. I'm a man who likes his tea.

Lol. that was the whole point of the analogy. Tea is fine, coffee is fine. But it's not snobbish if you order tea and get coffee to say "this isn't tea!"

I like Sean Paul, Can, Alex Wilson, Debussy, Ozric Tentacles, The B52s, Yerba Buena, the Fall, Antibalas Afrobeat Orchestra and Ravel's Daphnis and Chloe, but (with the possible exception of a couple of tracks) would raise an eyebrow if it were played in a salsa night.

 

[terence]

I recall you shared a list of songs you like to play on The Other Place -
have not had the time yet but I will check them out as some point.
Am curious what you consider tasty Salsa!

Theres a chance you may not recognise some of the tracks..will be happy to assist .

As to my taste..I have such a wide range of "likes ", particularly Charanga bands , and, i dont like Descarga to the extent it dominates a nite . Also. . NO english lyrics .

Heres another CD ive just compiled..( for use in my classes )

Pacheco.. Juliana
Pacheco.. Juanaquita
W. Crespo... Tres en El lamor
Erik.. La Cantaleta
I. Ferrer.. El Son de la Cuban de Nacional
C. Valoy .. Pasito Colombiano
J, Sabater.. La Flauta
W. Crespo.... Rozame la Piel
Erik.. Si Ella supiera
Cal Tjader .. Mambo Blues
Salseando.. Arinara
La Playa.. El Loco Juan Po
A. Barros... Cargamento Colombiano
Erik ... El Soltero
C. Davila..... Cuando Tu Quieras
T. Rodrigues.. Dulce con Dulce

 

[Flujo]

I'm a bit behind here.

I am now getting to the point (mainly thanks to reading this forum)
where I am almost willing the DJ on to play the most challenging tracks (i.e. rubbish lol).

It's another ideal to aspire to: being able to make any song come to life.

Agreed.
Getting familiar with the patterns, the rhythms, everything will transform the familiarity aspect for you. It'll stop being about familiarity with a particular song and become about the familiarity of elements within a song.

An example?
There is a tune where for a couple of seconds it's like the brass players give a nod to the brass lines in Ran Kan Kan Ed: it's actually Caravan, got the wrong tune there. That bit gets me every time. It's the muted trumpet sound as the player opens it out in Tumba el Quinto. I think it only comes in once but I listen to it just to hear that sometimes.

That's why I think more challenging songs give you more opportunity to bring the song to life. There is more to play with. If you want to take it one bit further you could even say that recognising those elements awakens your emotional memory. So one song will really be 20 different songs pieced together, each having been experienced with a different dancer. With obscure unfamiliar tracks you get to create new memories to resurrect in the future. Are you confused? I am. :lol: There was a point to be made there somewhere.

 

[crazygirl]

Sweavo re post #37 I bow down to you

I don't have the technical understanding you have but simply like what I like and feel wierd dancing to non salsa or sub salsa music. Depending on my moood, sometimes I'm more tolerant of the sub salsa than other times but this will also depend on the right partner who is willing to actually dance rather than just repeat patterns that don't fit.

 

[Flujo]

Playing catchup here. I agree with you guys. Proper Salsa bordering on Latin Jazz is easy to enjoy if you like Jazz but if you hate Jazz music then you'll probably cringe when those improvisations come in.

crazygirl, yep, you about summed it up for me too. Sometimes I want a bit of a mix. Some bachata, some merengue, something odd like a Tango fusion track. So as long as there are a couple girls about who aren't afraid of messing about it's all good. If anything it's more frustrating to dance to challenging music with a partner that isn't feeling it than it is to have a dance with someone who is feeling a song you don't like personally.

So to reply to the OP. Yeah, definitely.
I can buzz off a buzz no problem. You enjoy it I'll enjoy it.

I know of one teacher in the North that has actual said she doesn't like salsa music and my gut feeling is she isn't the only one!

 

[sweavo]

That's why I think more challenging songs give you more opportunity to bring the song to life. There is more to play with. If you want to take it one bit further you could even say that recognising those elements awakens your emotional memory.

That made perfect sense to me the first time I read it, and less on subsequent readings! (you're in good company, I had the same thing happen with "Zen Speaks: shouts of nothingness")

 

[WessexSalsero]

Terrific posts there, sweavo! Thank you very much for that online lesson!!
I am re-reading it and listening to Lloraras but suspect I might come back with
one or two questions. Still trying to get my head around the concept of singing
on the Ands!


Dave, where in London (even Greater London) have you found
a DJ who plays whole blocks of non-Salsa Salsa? I feel a DJ blacklist coming on!

I am aware that some venues round here just play Cuban/Merengue/Bachata type tunes
to the chagrin of the crossbody folk but that's not what you mean, is it?

 

[WessexSalsero]

terence, thank you! Yes, most of the songs/artists were unfamiliar, that's what caught my eye.
This is the other list:
1.. Mujer Ingrata... J.Pacheco

2.. Mi Guajira... A.Santiago

3.. Quiero Olvidarte.. Erik

4.. Como Sera.. W. Cirino

5.. Como Podre de similar.. Niche

6.. En parte de Cuba... I. Ferrer

7.. Vivir Sin Aire.. W.Crespo

8.. El Soltero.. Erik

9.. El Menu... Salsa all Stars

10.. Arinara... Salseando

11.. El Loco Juan Po .. La Playa

12.. Dulce con Dulce.. T. Rodriguez

13.. Cargamento Colombiano . A. Barros

14.. Volver Volver.. Gr. gale

15.. Aconsejala.. Papo Pepin

16.. Cuanto Tienes.. Arabela

17.. Cuando Tu Quieras.. Chiv. Davila

 

[terence]

. . Proper Salsa bordering on Latin Jazz

Proper salsa ??

 

[caffeinefreak]

First: my litmus test for salsa is whether it has clave & tumbao.
..
For a song to count as "really real" it has to include some bell parts, proper syncopation of lead lines on the 2 and 3 sides of the clave, and should have solos, a coro/pregon (call and response between singer and chorus), and monas (layered repeated brass).

PHEW!!! And when it's a song you're not familiar with, I bet you do all this in the first few seconds?


I was gonna say it's such a relief to discover others hating the R&B/Pop salsa nights as much as I do, but then again, I guess the simple fact that we're all reading a salsa-fanatic bulletin board puts us firmly in the obsessive category already!

Perhaps we could start a certification system that promoters/teachers could use to show that they'll only be playing "proper" salsa. How about "The Cowbell Mark" for a name?

 

[terence]

Perhaps we could start a certification system that promoters/teachers could use to show that they'll only be playing "proper" salsa. How about "The Cowbell Mark" for a name?

OK, I,m going to say it before anyone else jumps in.. Thats "Udderly" ridiculous ,but I will concede.. its a MOOt point ...

 

[DJ Yuca]

Perhaps we could start a certification system that promoters/teachers could use to show that they'll only be playing "proper" salsa. How about "The Cowbell Mark" for a name?

Good idea, should beef up the quality of the music.

 

[AndrewD]

Good idea, should beef up the quality of the music.

There's so much at steak - but I think we should meat in the middle and compromise.

 

[WessexSalsero]

Cowpromise? And follow the herd in bovine contentment!?

Let me ruminate on that.

 

[terence]

there's So Much At Steak - But I Think We Should Meat In The Middle And Compromise.

Lol!!!!!!!!

 

[terence]

Cowpromise? And follow the herd in bovine contentment!?

Let me ruminate on that.

Now its getting completely out of Hoof

 

[AndrewD]

Now its getting completely out of Hoof

Veally? Dairy say that this topic can be milked much more – after all, people deserve to be herd.

 

[sweavo]

PHEW!!! And when it's a song you're not familiar with, I bet you do all this in the first few seconds?

Usually, yes.

Post some 15 second intro excerpts if you like and test me!

/edit: and you're all being very silly. don't make me come back there and tan your hides.

 

[terence]

Usually, yes.

Post some 15 second intro excerpts if you like and test me!

/edit: and you're all being very silly. don't make me come back there and tan your hides.

After all these comments, I,m going to see if i can get you all Knighted ( same title )...

Sir Loin