Breaking up with your teacher

S

SalsaNerd

Changui
Friends, I am considering switching salsa teachers. But after more than two years. And in a city where a lot of people in the scene know each other.

There has been no conflict or bad feelings, I just get the feeling that she doesn't know how to help me with what I need help with. My progress has been embarassingly slow, and much of that is my fault, but my social dancing is still terrible and I can't figure it out by myself. I get good tips for practice during class, but I don't think she knows what is keeping me from dancing well with others. Because we have been practicing long enough, she usually knows what I'm doing, but whenever I go to a social, my partners tend to not understand what I am trying to do. Not fun. If I were a follow, I would not want to dance with me.

I am trying to decide what the best strategy would be. Maybe I stay with her, but approach classes more like an opportunity to practice with a partner and focus more on learning from what I see from material online. After all, another teacher might not be able to tell me what I need to change or work on, either.

Have you been in a similar situation? Slow progress? Having to switch teachers? Always being the only one on the dance floor who fails to communicate with your partner?
 
Tricky situation. I've been in a very similar spot: my sports instructor was ill, and someone from the same school covered for her. The cover was a million times better than her, and I wanted to take lessons only from that cover. Problem was, I would meet the first teacher practically everytime I arrived at the school. I decided that because it was a very expensive class, I simply couldn't afford to pay a teacher where the progress is not even remotely as good only out of pity or politeness. I asked for the new instructor. I didn't say the old one was bad, I said the new one is simply excellent for me. In the end, the old instructor didn't seem to care as there were tons of other students.

In your situation, if you take private classes and yet don't see much progress and are unable to execute the moves, something is wrong. It might not work out with the new teacher either, but that won't change the fact that your current lessons still leave you without the progress you want. Just a question, do you also go to group classes? I noticed that sometimes when a person dances only with a pro (teacher), they struggle with anyone else on their own level as the pro compensates for their shortcomings.
 
Based on my experience as a student (have also taught), it is really good to go to multiple teachers instead of one. Each has slightly different methodology and sometimes a small remark by a new teacher will help greatly. It also sounds like being with the same teacher for a long time has ingrained bad habits. I've never gone to the same teacher for more than 6-7 months, time to switch it up. If you want to avoid feeling guilty you can go do a different dance style lessons for a month as an excuse. It's not a marriage lol.
 
My first teacher was like that. She introduced me to Salsa and had me learning the first basic steps for which I am always grateful, but in retrospect the progress was sloooow. At some point I explored another teacher and was astonished at how quick my progress was.

After many months with another teacher I met the old teacher at a social, she was astonished at my progress, but I was somewhat deflated by how ... average? she was. In my mind I had her as this amazing dancer but she really wasn't... but may be she wasnt't trying hard enough.

Every time she meets me in a social now she makes a point of running over and having a dance and a conversation. No bridges burnt.

I am now much more selective with who I go to. Often times a teacher comes up and tries to hint to know where I'm going and I try to deflate but by the end of the day they are running a business, and I am purchasing a service.

You are paying money for this. You don't have to make any excuses. The reality is that teachers churn through so many students they for the most part do not care.

Some teachers also either are not good enough or have some fatal flaws. I've not returned to teachers for a variety of reasons 1) Teachers who are more into showing that they are doing complicated stuff than into actually teaching theirn students 2) Teachers who don't drill enough (goddamnit stop talking and just have us work again and again) 3) Teachers who don't give feedback. I don't expect customized 1 on 1 advice but if I go the entire lesson without having a single piece of feedback I'll question whether I've learnt anything.
 
eclo said:
Absolutely try more teachers. Best thing for my dancing was trying different teachers, different styles. IME good teachers should encourage you to get a wide experience in dance, salsa and beyond.
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Absolutely. I would add, if a teacher is trying to discourage students from taking more classes elsewhere or going to socials with others, it's a huge redflag.
 
Amun said:
Tricky situation. I've been in a very similar spot: my sports instructor was ill, and someone from the same school covered for her. The cover was a million times better than her, and I wanted to take lessons only from that cover. Problem was, I would meet the first teacher practically everytime I arrived at the school. I decided that because it was a very expensive class, I simply couldn't afford to pay a teacher where the progress is not even remotely as good only out of pity or politeness. I asked for the new instructor. I didn't say the old one was bad, I said the new one is simply excellent for me. In the end, the old instructor didn't seem to care as there were tons of other students.

In your situation, if you take private classes and yet don't see much progress and are unable to execute the moves, something is wrong. It might not work out with the new teacher either, but that won't change the fact that your current lessons still leave you without the progress you want. Just a question, do you also go to group classes? I noticed that sometimes when a person dances only with a pro (teacher), they struggle with anyone else on their own level as the pro compensates for their shortcomings.
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Not going to group classes, but thanks for the reminder of the possibility because that might be the addition that I need.
 
SalsaNerd said:
Have you been in a similar situation? Slow progress? Having to switch teachers? Always being the only one on the dance floor who fails to communicate with your partner?
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You are not in a relationship. You can just switch over anytime you want. If she asks, just say you want to try something different. It might be different if you join one of those performance teams. Then you got obligations. Stay clear!
 
SalsaNerd said:
My progress has been embarassingly slow, and much of that is my fault, but my social dancing is still terrible
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You've been having privates for 2 years and you can't social dance? Your teacher is clueless and/or lacks motivation. The only thing that's your fault is sticking with the teacher for so long.

I recommend that you ask for a refund.
 
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God damn, i didn't read the whole post until now. You took two years private lessons but aren't able to social dance. Man, what were those lessons for? what exactly did she teach you? Music appreciation? :oops:
 
Bostontraitor said:
God damn, i didn't read the whole post until now. You took two years private lessons but aren't able to social dance. Man, what were those lessons for? what exactly did she teach you? Music appreciation? :oops:
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It's not that I can't at all, just not well. I have learned a lot, and from zero, but my ability to put it all together with other dancers is still significantly lagging.
 
SalsaNerd said:
It's not that I can't at all, just not well. I have learned a lot, and from zero, but my ability to put it all together with other dancers is still significantly lagging.
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I also missed the note about learning for two years already. It depends on how often you had your classes if it's let's say once per month it's ok, that's basically only 12 classes a year, but if you go every week, then I would say immediately find a new teacher. When you say that you learnt a lot but you struggle to do the same with someone else, could be that you are learning patterns instead of proper execution (this again would fall on the teacher).
 
SalsaNerd said:
It's not that I can't at all, just not well. I have learned a lot, and from zero, but my ability to put it all together with other dancers is still significantly lagging.
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Learning to lead via an instructor who is a follow is not optimal. If you believe leading is your weakness then learning from another lead will be much better. IME, when I was learning to dance salsa (a long time ago) and our male instructor would dance as a follow, he had a lot of resistance. Your leading had to be sharp and with some force to get it right. That works much better in a learning situation than with a super smooth follow who follows even a badly lead turn pattern.

Most people who jump into dancing and their first dance is salsa face multiple hurdles all at once. The complex rhythm, the specifics of how to translate weight shift into a lead, the core position... and do it all at once right away and correctly.

Some of us were lucky in that our first dances we learned were ballroom dances. In ballroom they teach all the principles of lead and follow to easy music first and then one advances to the complex rhythms.
This is likely one of the reasons why bachata has become so popular within latin dances and has supplanted a lot of salsa in many regions. It is a much easier rhythm to dance to so the leads and follows don't have to struggle as much with the music while trying to learn the dance technique.
 
bailar y tocar said:
Learning to lead via an instructor who is a follow is not optimal. If you believe leading is your weakness then learning from another lead will be much better. IME, when I was learning to dance salsa (a long time ago) and our male instructor would dance as a follow, he had a lot of resistance. Your leading had to be sharp and with some force to get it right. That works much better in a learning situation than with a super smooth follow who follows even a badly lead turn pattern.

Most people who jump into dancing and their first dance is salsa face multiple hurdles all at once. The complex rhythm, the specifics of how to translate weight shift into a lead, the core position... and do it all at once right away and correctly.

Some of us were lucky in that our first dances we learned were ballroom dances. In ballroom they teach all the principles of lead and follow to easy music first and then one advances to the complex rhythms.
This is likely one of the reasons why bachata has become so popular within latin dances and has supplanted a lot of salsa in many regions. It is a much easier rhythm to dance to so the leads and follows don't have to struggle as much with the music while trying to learn the dance technique.
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Thanks for this answer (and everybody else too, I appreciate your thoughts).

I just recently met a dude, pro trained, who I am going to see more, and I think you are right that learning from a lead will be better.

What you mentioned about translating weight shifts into a lead is something I need to know more about and practice. Same with core position.
 
SalsaNerd said:
I guess once a month on average.
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I'm going to point to this as the reason why progress is extremely slow.

To put it into perspective, that's roughly 24 times social dancing total in 2 years. If you took group classes plus social danced once per week plus stayed after class to practice 30-60 minutes with others, you'd quickly cover the same amount of social dancing in 2-3 months.

Most leads don't become serviceable in 2-3 months either, even with weekly classes. I'd say it takes minimum 6 months with weekly classes plus going out social dancing once a week along with supplementary practice at your studio with other students.

Hardcore beginners take 2-3 group classes per week with multiple studios, in addition to going out anywhere between 2-5x per week in the first 6 months of their dance journey. Even though they are at the other end of the spectrum, the amount of practice time they're getting in is truly incomparable.

Yes 2 years is a long time, but you haven't done what I'd consider even the bare minimum of social dancing to qualify. You are essentially training with a teacher privately for nothing.
 
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SalsaNerd said:
I just recently met a dude, pro trained, who I am going to see more, and I think you are right that learning from a lead will be better.
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To be honest, even with the best teacher in the world, progress with social dancing will still be slow.

IMO, the best wisdom a teacher can give you is the encouragement and inspiration to go out dancing more.

Beginners especially need this. Going out and meeting others who can motivate you to join them helps a lot in your own progress. This is why taking group classes is so important as a beginner.

When it comes to learning a skill, social dancing is an entirely different beast that cannot be learned in isolation. You must earn your stripes by proactively going out social dancing in the wild so to speak. There is just no other way.
 
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