Breaking up with your teacher

[Smejmoon]

I guess once a month on average.

Find a way to do that at least 2 times a week at least couple hours each time. Just to maintain what you have learned. If you want to get better you need more, obviously.
Dancing is a physical skill as well which you need to reinforce regularly to keep up. Also you need a lot of repetitions to remember what you learned. And they need to be spaced close enough at first. (Look up spaced repetition)

If your teacher didn't encourage you to do that, then of course change teacher. But teachers I've met have been explicit that students should go out and dance.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Another thing to point out is that by not social dancing enough inevitably creates a negative view of social dancing as a whole and also makes one fear it.

When you don’t go social dancing —> fearing social dancing —> resulting in not improving —> continue the loop

This negative feedback loop is more hazardous than simply not progressing with your teacher.

The teacher does hold influence over how you perceive social dancing. I am curious if your current teacher also teaches group classes? If so, why not then switch to group classes?

A teacher who only gives private lessons but not group classes would indicate to me that they are not really a good teacher for the goal that you have in mind, which is to be able to dance with more people.

 

[Al Israel]

Just go to some group classes, socialize, make a fool of yourself with total beginners. (First obviously have good rhythm and know basic steps). You can learn a lot about leading from dancing with someone with no knowledge beyond the basics and maybe the simplest turns. No "helping".

 

[Mambero75]

You've been having privates for 2 years and you can't social dance? Your teacher is clueless and/or lacks motivation. The only thing that's your fault is sticking with the teacher for so long.

I recommend that you ask for a refund.

+1

There is no way you're incapable of learning and it's clear this instructor isn't the right one for you. As someone else said you're not in a relationship, you don't need to struggle with this. Try different instructors.

 

[Offbeat]

Irrespective of which teacher you choose in the end, I would recommend social dancing at least as often as you take classes.It is probably also a good idea to focus on simple things first.

At least as often? I will almost disagree

For every class you take dance at least 3x socially if you goal is to became a decent social dancer and enjoy it.

For every private lesson I will say at least 5x to 6x.

 

[Offbeat]

I also missed the note about learning for two years already. It depends on how often you had your classes if it's let's say once per month it's ok, that's basically only 12 classes a year, but if you go every week, then I would say immediately find a new teacher. When you say that you learnt a lot but you struggle to do the same with someone else, could be that you are learning patterns instead of proper execution (this again would fall on the teacher).

No number of privates however good and excellent the instructor is can replace the experience and learning from dancing with different partners. That can come partly from group classes and wholly from going social dancing and dancing with different partners. That’s why switching is encouraged in group classes even for those who come as a couple.

There are some rarities who social dance with the same partner and then lack skills to dance well.

 

[Offbeat]

I guess once a month on average.

You will need probably 15-20 years to be able to lead at that rate.

 

[TikiTaka]

At least as often? I will almost disagree

For every class you take dance at least 3x socially if you goal is to became a decent social dancer and enjoy it.

For every private lesson I will say at least 5x to 6x.

I agree in principle but in practice most classes are once per week and for most people it might not be feasible to social dance 3x per week.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

I don’t think it’s necessary to triple your social dancing to class ratio. If you take classes 3x per week, I don’t think going out dancing 9 times on top of that is the answer lol. Going out once per week is fine. It is enough just to create a habit of social dancing.

Don’t underestimate the group class x-factor. People forming into groups and practicing with each other, either before/after class. Or the studio holding its own practice socials once per week.

But dancing once per month as a beginner is not nearly enough, especially with no access to other dancers during the class.

For a seasoned dancer, once per month is fine as there is sufficient muscle memory retention, but for a beginner, it’s career suicide.

 

[Smejmoon]

For a seasoned dancer, once per month is fine as there is sufficient muscle memory retention, but for a beginner, it’s career suicide.

For a seasoned dancer once a month is fine not to forget what is salsa. But there won't be noticeable improvement. Something new might appear, but some old skills will start to rust.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

For a seasoned dancer once a month is fine not to forget what is salsa. But there won't be noticeable improvement. Something new might appear, but some old skills will start to rust.

Yes but the seasoned dancer isn’t worried about getting dances. The beginner who is still in this phase must therefore dance significantly more often in order to reach the same level of comfort.

 

[Offbeat]

I agree in principle but in practice most classes are once per week and for most people it might not be feasible to social dance 3x per week.

That will certainly hinder their progress. I think we all seen that those who will dance once a week will fall behind the curve. In scenes where people do not have opportunity to social dance, we do see far longer learning curve. Motivated ones will travel to big city for experience. That costs money. Not everyone can afford it.

A mistake I see a lot of beginners do is take classes after classes. Even when they go to festival. I remember at Sibenik I was sharing the cottage with bunch of very nice people. Most were not very experienced. They tried to pack as many classes during the day. By time social dancing came started they were only going to spend an hour or two.

Taking class after class means you never have time to master what has been taught. One group class has enough material for putting it into use socially a few times and getting hang of it in real dance setting. A private is more individualized. More material to practice and master through social dancing. Therefore no more than two privates a month is right cadence.

 

[Offbeat]

I don’t think it’s necessary to triple your social dancing to class ratio. If you take classes 3x per week, I don’t think going out dancing 9 times on top of that is the answer lol. Going out once per week is fine. It is enough just to create a habit of social dancing.

Depends on the scene and how good social dancing is in your scene. Heard of diminishing returns? More than two or three classes a week is not going to help social dancing a great deal if that means you don’t have time to go social dancing. We know what that does to performance team people. They are unable to dance socially. A part of it is they never learn to.

There is a long running salsa club 10 minutes drive from my home. It has been having a few nights every week for at least 25 years. People who learnt to dance there mostly only go there. It is in the suburbs. This place never had a DJ. The music is all salsa but a iPod playlist. The people who dance there don’t go anywhere else. They are almost oblivious to rich larger scene around in the area. The level of dancing there is generally low. Has also been low. Most enthusiastic dancers sought out the places where there is “real” dancing takes place. People who want to get better seek out multiple places to dance, quickly realize where the good dancers go, etc. Whereas dancers in this club are like frog in the well. Only very few break out and when they see the rest of scene they realize what they have been missing. Over the years only a handful of dancers from that club venture out. When they did, they struggled and realise how far behind they are in terms of their skills. This by their own accounts. The people who have become good dancers almost never started at that particular club. They were out dancing at least twice a week. I think by now I have seen half my scene since they were beginners

Don’t underestimate the group class x-factor. People forming into groups and practicing with each other, either before/after class. Or the studio holding its own practice socials once per week.

Where I am that rarely happened. Rather after the classes, people would stream into the salsa clubs. Classes were elsewhere in the city. You could dance almost 5 days a week. Beginners and regulars at the time would be out dancing at least thrice a week. From where I understood at the time, it was rather difficult to get people together for practice. The performance team were different. Those people practiced. But they formed less than 20% of regular dancers in our scene. Most people stuck to one or two classes a week. All these were drop in classes. The classes were at rented at studios only for specific time, where others also had booked space. There was no room to dance before or after the class. You had to pack up as soon as the class got over. No one held practice socials and still don’t. What I am describing is fairly common all along west coast and NYC. Though in NYC some of the big schools did have socials which only the students attended. In most of the big cities with big scenes, social dancing is your practice time.

Most beginners who succeeded and stuck around were dancing very frequently in first two to three years.

 

[TikiTaka]

That will certainly hinder their progress. I think we all seen that those who will dance once a week will fall behind the curve. In scenes where people do not have opportunity to social dance, we do see far longer learning curve. Motivated ones will travel to big city for experience. That costs money. Not everyone can afford it.

A mistake I see a lot of beginners do is take classes after classes. Even when they go to festival. I remember at Sibenik I was sharing the cottage with bunch of very nice people. Most were not very experienced. They tried to pack as many classes during the day. By time social dancing came started they were only going to spend an hour or two.

Taking class after class means you never have time to master what has been taught. One group class has enough material for putting it into use socially a few times and getting hang of it in real dance setting. A private is more individualized. More material to practice and master through social dancing. Therefore no more than two privates a month is right cadence.

I still don' believe 3x is necessarily an optimal ratio.

Many like me don't even take classes. So my ratio is like 100 socials per class. Someone taking classes frequently might be learning more than I do though.

In general I think 1 class per week and 1-3 socials per week is good.

 

[Smejmoon]

I still don' believe 3x is necessarily an optimal ratio.

Many like me don't even take classes. So my ratio is like 100 socials per class. Someone taking classes frequently might be learning more than I do though.

In general I think 1 class per week and 1-3 socials per week is good.

What I've heard from dance teachers the optimal ratio is around 8 for private lessons, less for group lessons (where assumption is that group lessons contain some dancing and repetition of material). Ratio changes depending on individuals, talented pros sometimes learn with 1:1, but this is not the case of talented pro.

Another topic is learning something vs being able to execute it. Internalization takes time to repeat.

And this is a physical skill, you might know something and still not be able to execute it if you lack muscles, muscle control, flexibility, mobility, coordination, independence, etc. You don't get that without moving your body again and again and again and again. Thus trained person who already has control over themselves can master material faster, while untrained person might think that certain things are impossible to execute.

 

[Offbeat]

I still don' believe 3x is necessarily an optimal ratio.

Many like me don't even take classes. So my ratio is like 100 socials per class. Someone taking classes frequently might be learning more than I do though.

In general I think 1 class per week and 1-3 socials per week is good.

There is no magic ratio. 1 time social a week is most unlikely to make an average person as good as he/she wishes to be in 6 months or a year. As I said in my observation all those who got good faster were dancing multiple times a week. May be what you consider good, is not good enough in my books

You are making my case for more social dancing. In salsa world classes are vastly overrated. Most are anyways not focused on giving what you need to get better. Most people who got better got despite the classes. Not because of them. Classes are like a drug and comfort zone for those who don’t develop enough confidence in their own social dancing. If you are going multiple times a week for social dancing, by six months you should start feeling some confidence in your abilities. I seen people lack that after 12/18 months.

It is worth looking at how a majority of people dance after taking more classes and doing less social dancing. It is not fair to compare it to any one individual.

 

[TikiTaka]

There is no magic ratio. 1 time social a week is most unlikely to make an average person as good as he/she wishes to be in 6 months or a year. As I said in my observation all those who got good faster were dancing multiple times a week. May be what you consider good, is not good enough in my books

You are making my case for more social dancing. In salsa world classes are vastly overrated. Most are anyways not focused on giving what you need to get better. Most people who got better got despite the classes. Not because of them. Classes are like a drug and comfort zone for those who don’t develop enough confidence in their own social dancing. If you are going multiple times a week for social dancing, by six months you should start feeling some confidence in your abilities. I seen people lack that after 12/18 months.

It is worth looking at how a majority of people dance after taking more classes and doing less social dancing. It is not fair to compare it to any one individual.

Seems we are talking about two different things. I am talking about good enough to become a proficient social dancer for the average person who doesn't have time to social dance 3 times per week. I think 1-3 times is fine, but I definitely think you can become good without doing 3 times every week. I learnt Dominican Bachata by social dancing perhaps once every three months (without classes) but I can definitely hold my own.

 

[Offbeat]

Seems we are talking about two different things. I am talking about good enough to become a proficient social dancer for the average person who doesn't have time to social dance 3 times per week. I think 1-3 times is fine, but I definitely think you can become good without doing 3 times every week. I learnt Dominican Bachata by social dancing perhaps once every three months (without classes) but I can definitely hold my own.

bachata and salsa are world apart to be able to social dance.

Everyone I knew never formally learnt bachata. Everyone picked it up dancing socially back then. There were no classes.

 

[TikiTaka]

bachata and salsa are world apart to be able to social dance.

Everyone I knew never formally learnt bachata. Everyone picked it up dancing socially back then. There were no classes.

In Europe people take Bachata Dominicana classes.

I also learnt linear salsa on my own by dancing once per week. The challenge for me was not social dancing too little. It was having to learn everything on my own by trial and error.