Bachata teachers without enough training

If Cuban Salsa and Linear Salsa crowds can't/refuse to cross pollinate, what makes people think Bachata and Salsa crowds can?

Separation is what the majority of dancers want right now.

Mixed SBK events are becoming their own crowd. But it's not a crowd I want to associate with because of worse music and lower level of dancing

I welcome any Bachata dancer to come to dance Salsa in the Salsa room, but Salsa and Bachata crowds at the moment are looking for completely different experiences.

I could see old school Bachata dancers wanting to take up Salsa, but the current crop of BS dancers tend to stay away from Salsa.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
If Cuban Salsa and Linear Salsa crowds can't/refuse to cross pollinate, what makes people think Bachata and Salsa crowds can?

Separation is what the majority of dancers want right now.

Mixed SBK events are becoming their own crowd. But it's not a crowd I want to associate with because of worse music and lower level of dancing

I welcome any Bachata dancer to come to dance Salsa in the Salsa room, but Salsa and Bachata crowds at the moment are looking for completely different experiences.

I could see old school Bachata dancers wanting to take up Salsa, but the current crop of BS dancers tend to stay away from Salsa.
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This year Magic had a small bachata room and I think that was great. Didn't make it an sbk event but allowed for some diversity. I've never been to a BS congress so I don't know if they do the same, but I think it's a good compromise way forward that still enables a focus on one dance or the other
 
Gaviota said:
Nah separation from the current bachata scene is good. Bachata influence drags salsa down. Witness the music they play at SaBaKi events
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Absolutely! Generic SBK events round here are pushing out salsa and casino and it's harder and harder to dance salsa and casino. Salsa and timba music is getting played less and less, shoved out in favour of generic Latin pop & bachata remixes. I can go to 'latin dance' or SBK events that advertise salsa and not hear more than a couple of true salsa or timba tracks all night.
 
FranzFan said:
This year Magic had a small bachata room and I think that was great. Didn't make it an sbk event but allowed for some diversity. I've never been to a BS congress so I don't know if they do the same, but I think it's a good compromise way forward that still enables a focus on one dance or the other
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Most people who go to Magic know that the Bachata room is not the focus of the event. Salsa is. If I were a Bachata dancer, I'd stay far away from Magic.

Pure Mambo/Salsa events will not have a Bachata room at all. IMO, this is a good thing. The dancers who go to those events know they will get 100% Salsa and such festivals absolutely should exist.

At Bachaturo, I remember there was a Salsa room and it was quite good but that was over a decade ago. I would not go to Bachaturo now.

I do not feel that mixing Salsa with Bachata or Kizomba is a good idea in today's current climate.

Mixing Salsa/Bachata/Kizomba has been tried and it is largely a failed experiment.
 
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Chris_Yannick said:
Most people who go to Magic know that the Bachata room is not the focus of the event. Salsa is. If I were a Bachata dancer, I'd stay far away from Magic.

Pure Mambo/Salsa events will not have a Bachata room at all. IMO, this is a good thing. The dancers who go to those events know they will get 100% Salsa and such festivals absolutely should exist.

At Bachatero, I remember there was a Salsa room and it was quite good but that was over a decade ago. I would not go to Bachatero now.

I do not feel that mixing Salsa with Bachata or Kizomba is a good idea in today's current climate.

Mixing Salsa/Bachata/Kizomba has been tried and it is largely a failed experiment.
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Successful in Havana now. The pure salsa night was dead and I had to suck it up and go to the Timba bachata kizomba night. Also there is a Havana Primera sing that switches to Bachata half way through and then back. So in Cuba there is a literal mixing
 
1derpalm said:
Successful in Havana now. The pure salsa night was dead and I had to suck it up and go to the Timba bachata kizomba night. Also there is a Havana Primera sing that switches to Bachata half way through and then back. So in Cuba there is a literal mixing
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Mixed SBK has been running here for years but that's not what I meant by successful.

I meant in terms of driving people towards Salsa.

Pure Salsa events are being driven niche so trying to host one without a niche strategy will always result in low attendance.

SBK/mixed events appeal to a certain demographic, while alienating another. This has caused push back.

In any case, single dance events are becoming more and more necessary due to this pushback by dancers.

P. S. That song that switches to Bachata and back to Salsa is also played at pure Salsa events.
 
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1derpalm said:
Also there is a Havana Primera sing that switches to Bachata half way through and then back. So in Cuba there is a literal mixing
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Chris_Yannick said:
That song that switches to Bachata and back to Salsa is also played at pure Salsa events.
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That song (Tres dias) has already 6 years and I don't know any other song who does this, so not really a genre of its own. Anybody knows another song doing this switch?
 
FranzFan said:
Not good if you want to grow salsa though
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That’s not going to grow salsa anymore than tango or swing will grow salsa. It is why originally many salsa instructors started offering bachata. They would get more students who they thought would cross over to salsa, because salsa was huge compared to bachata in those days. Little they realized that bachata being simpler will attract more crowd. If you have a simpler dance where people can willingly dance close or grind with gender of their choice without going to nightclub, it was bound to become popular. The surprising part is why it took so long for bachata to become so popular.
 
FranzFan said:
This year Magic had a small bachata room and I think that was great. Didn't make it an sbk event but allowed for some diversity. I've never been to a BS congress so I don't know if they do the same, but I think it's a good compromise way forward that still enables a focus on one dance or the other
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Magic always had a sensual room and it was always small.
 
David said:
I was reading on Reddit how DeJon (partner Clo) has been one of the more vocal critics who is frustrated with how Bachata is being taught. He is saying many teachers are just going straight to teaching after a couple of years and going straight into Sensual without knowing the foundations well. He doesn’t believe that teachers are respecting the heart and culture of Bachata.

I definitely feel like I have encountered quite a few (especially) bachata teachers that came up with flashy moves which has a lot of audience appeal, but they really don't understand the fundamentals of good partnership. Maybe they are very flexible or can do some awesome tricks (even saw a back flip!) but its not like they are able to teach good solid dancing.

You agree?
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Most bachata AND salsa teachers I met were just enthusiastic dancers, and by no means professionals (despite teaching for years). Most of them weren't able to explain even the simplest thing and relied purely on their muscle memory: they show, you watch. If you asked them to split the move, many of them would struggle to do so and would have to try repeatedly. This was discussed a lot, and still I seriously don't understand why are bachata&salsa classes so inferior in comparison to non-partner dancing especially.
 
Gaviota said:
Nah separation from the current bachata scene is good. Bachata influence drags salsa down. Witness the music they play at SaBaKi events
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FranzFan said:
Not good if you want to grow salsa though
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Growing something also has its backdraws. Bachata rules these days in europe, but I doubt I would like to have salsa in the same position because that also means: dancefloors flooded with clumsy beginners, classes overcrowded (in my area) and festivals sold out two hours after start of online selling: people wait behind their laptops in hope to get a ticket when selling starts. And hardly anyone interested in the musical roots.

At the moment we have great salsa festivals where nearly everybody I ask for a dance is a fantastic dancer. I may be a bit shortsighted but at the moment I wouldn't like to change that with the bachata situation.
 
I echo everyone here who's happier with fewer, smaller events of good quality. Most SBK events I get one or two good dances a night and pretty terrible music. If I go to a pure salsa or Cuban night I get a much better ratio of good to bad dances and better music.
 
Amun said:
Most bachata AND salsa teachers I met were just enthusiastic dancers, and by no means professionals (despite teaching for years). Most of them weren't able to explain even the simplest thing and relied purely on their muscle memory: they show, you watch. If you asked them to split the move, many of them would struggle to do so and would have to try repeatedly. This was discussed a lot, and still I seriously don't understand why are bachata&salsa classes so inferior in comparison to non-partner dancing especially.
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You allude to a great point that many people pay these teachers because their classes are a lot of fun, and having fun is an important part of dancing. Sometimes a dance scene can't get to be so good, that it becomes less welcoming to new people, and even the numbers start to drop off.
 
How many of your local scenes have pure salsa socials? How much is their frequency - weekly or monthly.


I think here we have 5 to 7 (there are more but ones I think top of my head) weekly events/parties/socials that are straight up salsa, including live music. The vibe and level varies very widely depending on where you go. Some have live music. Some have people more for socializing than dancing. Some are outdoor. I am not including Casino which is a separate community and has its own events.

Ones I go to (which are on2 socials) average about 3 to 4 a month. There is at least one on2 weekly social which I never go to.

The events that mix Salsa and Bachata or SBKZ on the same dance floor are rare. A couple of salsa events have a smaller room for bachata people.

I see a lot of BS workshops by visiting instructors. I don't see any BS dancing in local venues. A few or small percentage of bad attempts, yes. Most people still dance straight up bachata and not BS stuff.
 
MamboJazz said:
That song (Tres dias) has already 6 years and I don't know any other song who does this, so not really a genre of its own. Anybody knows another song doing this switch?
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There's a song I've been hearing at socials recently that has a very short salsa section (like 30 seconds) near the end of the song, but I haven't had time to shazam the name.

Aventura - La Curita has bachata and salsa both.

I wish people would play Tres Dias more. I've never actually heard it played at a social. Would be fun to see a follow smile when I switch to bachata mid-song, since I'm sure most wouldn't be aware of it ahead of time.
 
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