Bachata teachers without enough training

Offbeat said:
How many of your local scenes have pure salsa socials? How much is their frequency - weekly or monthly.


I think here we have 5 to 7 (there are more but ones I think top of my head) weekly events/parties/socials that are straight up salsa, including live music. The vibe and level varies very widely depending on where you go. Some have live music. Some have people more for socializing than dancing. Some are outdoor. I am not including Casino which is a separate community and has its own events.

Ones I go to (which are on2 socials) average about 3 to 4 a month. There is at least one on2 weekly social which I never go to.

The events that mix Salsa and Bachata or SBKZ on the same dance floor are rare. A couple of salsa events have a smaller room for bachata people.

I see a lot of BS workshops by visiting instructors. I don't see any BS dancing in local venues. A few or small percentage of bad attempts, yes. Most people still dance straight up bachata and not BS stuff.
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Where are you based may I ask?
 
rheemixed said:
Aventura - La Curita has bachata and salsa both.
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Thanks for that. You could call it a salsa song with bachata intro and outro. Both switches come surprising, from salsa to bachata is a rough break. From bachata to chacha a more organic switch is possible.

rheemixed said:
I wish people would play Tres Dias more. I've never actually heard it played at a social. Would be fun to see a follow smile when I switch to bachata mid-song, since I'm sure most wouldn't be aware of it ahead of time.
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You are right, but followers wouldn't smile but stare at you incredulously. We discussed this switch here:

www.salsaforums.com

Musicality missing in salsa partnerwork classes

Recently I watched a lead who represented much of what is going wrong on average european salsa dance-floors. He didn't pay any attention to the song he was leading to - the song was the famous "Ain't no sunshine" from Alfredito Linares. In that song there are several strong accents at "1" in...
www.salsaforums.com www.salsaforums.com
 
MamboJazz said:
Thanks for that. You could call it a salsa song with bachata intro and outro. Both switches come surprising, from salsa to bachata is a rough break. From bachata to chacha a more organic switch is possible.



You are right, but followers wouldn't smile but stare at you incredulously. We discussed this switch here:

www.salsaforums.com

Musicality missing in salsa partnerwork classes

Recently I watched a lead who represented much of what is going wrong on average european salsa dance-floors. He didn't pay any attention to the song he was leading to - the song was the famous "Ain't no sunshine" from Alfredito Linares. In that song there are several strong accents at "1" in...
www.salsaforums.com www.salsaforums.com
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Yeah there are a decent amount of songs I've heard w/ a bachata to cha-cha switch. Unfortunately I can't dance cha cha well (or on2 for that matter) so it would go poorly for me in that case. There's a bachata instructor in my region who did a demo to one for his lesson once, and he sent me a list of a few that do that.

Regarding the Tres Dias bachata section, if I heard the song come on, I'd make sure to find a follow to dance with who would appreciate it.
 
David said:
He is saying many teachers are just going straight to teaching after a couple of years and going straight into Sensual without knowing the foundations well.
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I wish it was a couple of years. I've seen people, leads especially, calling themselves instructors after a few months. There was a somewhat viral Instagram last year listing problems with the dance community as a whole and #1 was ego is rewarded more than talent most of the other problems stemmed from that. Like inexperienced lead instructor hides their inability by only dancing with experienced follows so new follows feel ignored.

You've got "instructors" who look great on the dance floor until you realize that they are not social dancing but doing the same same coreo with the same follows over and over.

Coming from a martial arts background current dance community reminds me a lot of 1980s-1990s pre UFC martial arts where there was a McDojo in every strip mall run by self appointed grand masters. And again the entire con was legitimized by choreography made to look real.
 
AKon1 said:
I wish it was a couple of years. I've seen people, leads especially, calling themselves instructors after a few months. There was a somewhat viral Instagram last year listing problems with the dance community as a whole and #1 was ego is rewarded more than talent most of the other problems stemmed from that. Like inexperienced lead instructor hides their inability by only dancing with experienced follows so new follows feel ignored.

You've got "instructors" who look great on the dance floor until you realize that they are not social dancing but doing the same same coreo with the same follows over and over.

Coming from a martial arts background current dance community reminds me a lot of 1980s-1990s pre UFC martial arts where there was a McDojo in every strip mall run by self appointed grand masters. And again the entire con was legitimized by choreography made to look real.
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As much as I agree, you kinda have to have a different point of view for small towns and cities. My town, for instance has almost nil in regards to teaching. So it's either that or nothing.
If your from a big city, or Europe where you can be like "I'll just pop by hamburg for an hour or so", than sure. But for our town the closest city to the west is 200 km. Then it is 1 hour to the first town 1.5 hours to the next, and then 2 hours for the next. So it's that or nothing.
P.s I have been asked to teach from time to time but do t consider myself anywhere near qualified.
 
I have been living in Spain in the centre of the action. I don’t see a difference between quality of teachers. I actually would say salsa teachers have been slightly worse than the bachata teachers. In the bigger cities in Spain, the bachata level is high.

I like SBK events. I have always liked a mix of music throughout my dancing life. That is my personal preference. However, in Alicante sometimes it was 3-4 bachata songs, 2 salsa and 1-2 kizomba. I definitely like more salsa and in the Canary Islands it is far more balanced.

I think kizomba is taught quite well in my experience. The basics and then added moves I can see in many dances on the dance floor.

Bachata sensual is here to stay. Many beginner classes go straight into body rolls and isolations right away in Spain. People generally dance bachata well so the teachers are doing a good job.
 
sunsoul said:
I have been living in Spain in the centre of the action. I don’t see a difference between quality of teachers. I actually would say salsa teachers have been slightly worse than the bachata teachers. In the bigger cities in Spain, the bachata level is high.

I like SBK events. I have always liked a mix of music throughout my dancing life. That is my personal preference. However, in Alicante sometimes it was 3-4 bachata songs, 2 salsa and 1-2 kizomba. I definitely like more salsa and in the Canary Islands it is far more balanced.

I think kizomba is taught quite well in my experience. The basics and then added moves I can see in many dances on the dance floor.

Bachata sensual is here to stay. Many beginner classes go straight into body rolls and isolations right away in Spain. People generally dance bachata well so the teachers are doing a good job.
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The couple De'Jon & Clo cited in the first posting are US-based professionals and dance both since childhood - needless to say both dance excellent, so they have a high standard. Being US-based they have a relation to dominican bachata, while BS comes to US like a recent import.

I noticed on canary islands they never played dominican bachata, which surprised me. From dominican viewpoint they neglect the heart and culture of Bachata, but I guess spanish youngsters couldn't care less. They want to have fun and mate and don't worry about the past. Ask your 85 year old grandfather - he was dancing rock'n'roll as a youngster and couldn't care less about jazz then, although there were some roots in it (but maybe he's hearing jazz now).
 
MamboJazz said:
The couple De'Jon & Clo cited in the first posting are US-based professionals and dance both since childhood - needless to say both dance excellent, so they have a high standard. Being US-based they have a relation to dominican bachata, while BS comes to US like a recent import.

I noticed on canary islands they never played dominican bachata, which surprised me. From dominican viewpoint they neglect the heart and culture of Bachata, but I guess spanish youngsters couldn't care less. They want to have fun and mate and don't worry about the past. Ask your 85 year old grandfather - he was dancing rock'n'roll as a youngster and couldn't care less about jazz then, although there were some roots in it (but maybe he's hearing jazz now).
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Dominican bachata music is fairly rare, yes. For me, dancing and music evolves over time. I don’t know about the heart and soul of bachata or salsa, for that matter. Cuban is quite different from on1 but we still consider them both as salsa (or most do). Okay, I don’t like covers of pop songs that is true.
 
sunsoul said:
I have been living in Spain in the centre of the action. I don’t see a difference between quality of teachers. I actually would say salsa teachers have been slightly worse than the bachata teachers. In the bigger cities in Spain, the bachata level is high.

I like SBK events. I have always liked a mix of music throughout my dancing life. That is my personal preference. However, in Alicante sometimes it was 3-4 bachata songs, 2 salsa and 1-2 kizomba. I definitely like more salsa and in the Canary Islands it is far more balanced.

I think kizomba is taught quite well in my experience. The basics and then added moves I can see in many dances on the dance floor.

Bachata sensual is here to stay. Many beginner classes go straight into body rolls and isolations right away in Spain. People generally dance bachata well so the teachers are doing a good job.
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Please can you post a video of social dancing that demonstrates what you refer to above.
 
sunsoul said:
I have been living in Spain in the centre of the action. I don’t see a difference between quality of teachers. I actually would say salsa teachers have been slightly worse than the bachata teachers. In the bigger cities in Spain, the bachata level is high.

I like SBK events. I have always liked a mix of music throughout my dancing life. That is my personal preference. However, in Alicante sometimes it was 3-4 bachata songs, 2 salsa and 1-2 kizomba. I definitely like more salsa and in the Canary Islands it is far more balanced.

I think kizomba is taught quite well in my experience. The basics and then added moves I can see in many dances on the dance floor.

Bachata sensual is here to stay. Many beginner classes go straight into body rolls and isolations right away in Spain. People generally dance bachata well so the teachers are doing a good job.
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Spain is the best BS level in the world, so it wouldn't surprise me if teachers there are better :)
 
Gaviota said:
Here's one

"La referencia del baile se marca cada DOMINGO en Madrid en @jowkelatin, la MEJOR sala de BSK de España y probablemente de Europa y del planeta "

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Thanks. It's possible they're very good dancers and I'm blind to their abilities due to finding both the style of dance and the music completely repugnant. Or maybe they're not very good at all but in the land of the blind the 1-eyed man is king.
 
sunsoul said:
Bachataspain_official on Instagram has a lot of videos.
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First I notice a tough sexyness contest there among women, for the men it's easier with casual t-shirt and jeans. Music-wise it's mostly euro bachata pop, not my taste, US-bachata sadly is becoming rare to be heard.
 
Roughly speaking he is probably good intermediate level. Also about half as much head rolls in most social dances.

PS That song is a bit euro poppy and not so common.
 
sunsoul said:
Roughly speaking he is probably good intermediate level. Also about half as much head rolls in most social dances.

PS That song is a bit euro poppy and not so common.
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This is exactly why I asked you for a vid that demonstrates a high quality example of the typical style.
 
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