Maybe it’s the sign of the times. Last time I went to a fan convention was in 2003. None of the actors I knew of were charging for autographs. I heard that one actor was charging but that everyone was avoiding.
any famous dancers that you think are extremely over rated?
- Thread starter granrey
- Start date
Maybe it’s the sign of the times. Last time I went to a fan convention was in 2003. None of the actors I knew of were charging for autographs. I heard that one actor was charging but that everyone was avoiding.
Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
I am just curious since you have been around a long time.
Who do you think are the better dancers/Congress instructors nowadays?
Female & Male.
I just finished another cycle of classes. The instructor is a judge in Salsa competitions and told us to not pay attention to competitions as they are popularity contests vs originally, creativity a skill. I'm still a novice but for her to make that statement tells me a lot.
As for learning, for any private instruction, I'm a firm believer that you should have very specific items you want to work on. Otherwise, group classes are the way to go. I made the mistake in the beginning because I had no idea what to expect but I learned quickly to bring a list. I haven't been to a Congress but since I'm not good enough for 15 mins to sink in, it's more cost effective to ($ and time/energy) to do the full hour lesson.
As for learning, for any private instruction, I'm a firm believer that you should have very specific items you want to work on. Otherwise, group classes are the way to go. I made the mistake in the beginning because I had no idea what to expect but I learned quickly to bring a list. I haven't been to a Congress but since I'm not good enough for 15 mins to sink in, it's more cost effective to ($ and time/energy) to do the full hour lesson.
It depends on the teacher and certainly isn't true for "any private instructin". It's probably a good idea to make a list if you have very limited time and you want to take a private with certain superstar instructor on the congress which you believe can do magic and improve things on the list and make them 10x better ... which is a bit unrealistic so to say
In reality, a good teacher will ask you to show him/her some dancing and determine most obvious problems and try correcting them in some reasonable time which is usually considerably longer than people think ...
Most group classes are not that useful for learning from teacher, but more to make you more compatible with other people from the venue in all mistakes all of you are making ...
mambocowboy
Son
I have bills too. If dancing isn't paying their bills they need to pick up a second job .
Most group classes are not that useful for learning from teacher, but more to make you more compatible with other people from the venue in all mistakes all of you are making ...
95% of my learning came from group classes.
The term "group" masks the optimal number required to learn. I don't know what is optimal number but is probably less than ten couples in a partner dancing class.
Most of group classes I have taken had between five to eight couples. Large classes have worked when a few principles are being taught. It is about understanding and recognizing the principle rather than mastering then and there.
Most mere mortals can never master anything we have never done before then and there in an one hour or ninety minute class. That is why people who go out social dancing more often become better dancers than those who only take classes. Believing you can learn faster or better by taking beginner, intermediate, advance class without adequate social dancing is a fallacy. If what you are learning is not what you use when social dancing (e.g. choreography), you can't learn faster than a guy or girl dancing three or four nights a week. If you learn only footwork or shines, you are not improving your social dancing. Recently there appears to be a rise in number of ladies team. Many attract beginners or intermediates. Those that weren't good at connecting or missing cues during social dancing still aren't any better at it. There body movement and footwork when dancing apart may have improved but they still can't walk the CBL properly. In short you have to learn what is needed for you to be able to dance socially. Classes are not enough. You have to be out and dance regularly (at least three times a week at the start). You have to dance with wide a variety of people. Only then you can internalize and caliberate what you learnt in a class. Whether private or group.
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More like dancing should be their second job if it isn't paying. A lot of artists (musicians, dancers, writers, et ) work 9-5 day type jobs. I have met those who work in coffee shops, dog sitters, uber drivers, restaurants, etc. To think most of them do similar work to what students do. Except they do it 40 or 60 hours a week. Their main passion is their art.
Then you have the other group. They have passions but those are secondary to their work. They do not intend to make a living out of their passion. It is rather to have a more full filling life. They do quit work to pursue their passion full-time but not with any intent to make a living out of it. I have met tango dancers, photographers, travellers that fall in this category.
I am just a social dancer
. I don’t take workshops/classes so I can not comment on an instructor’s teaching ability.IMO, the best social dancers are not known, except by other social dancers. I could list many no names, but probably better to stick with household names.
Out of the known celebrities, I like different dancers for different reasons. For simplicity’s sake, I will break it down to solo/musicality vs partnerwork.
Solo work/musicality: Terry Tauliaut, Vanessa Lacedonia, Alberto Valdes, Eddie Torres Jr, Ezgi Zaman, Magna Gopal, Bersy Cortez, Umberto Nocita, Fadi Fusion, Franklin Diaz
Partnering (ability to lead smooth and connected dances or who is just good at partnerwork): Jorge Ataca Burjos, Panagiotis Aglamisis, Rodrigo Cortazar, Tito Ortos, Jose Diaz, Oliver Pineda, Jariel Garcia, Mitchell Provence, Milton Cobo
People who are just good: Griselle Ponce, Tania Cannarsa, Ella Jauk, Tamara Livolsi, Cecile Ovide, Ana Garcia, Fernando Sosa, Adrian Arellano
Notable mentions who at one point I really enjoyed but who I'm no longer sold on or haven't done anything recently I have particularly enjoyed:
Maykel Fonts, Adolfo Indacochea, Marco Ferrigno, Frankie Martinez, Karel Flores, SuperMario, Alien Ramirez
Took me a while to compile this list. I'm sure it will change.
Fact. What is highlighted needs constant upkeep. Maintaining social dancing form is not easy. I find that if I don't practice at least three times a week, I am already regressing.
They choose their career and I choose mine. If they don't like how to make a living in it, then change careers.
As long as they create a separate punch ticket and area for social dancing classes. I can see teachers charging for any social dance and then giving a cheap 30 second feedback. Put it in another room, so it doesn't take up space for people who are there to social dance and have fun.
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One of the DJs on the European congress circuit is working on his PhD and Salsa is only his hobby. Yet he finds the time to social dance, DJ at events, travel to multiple congresses throughout the year (like Smejmoon level of traveling)... I don't get it. Maybe there's a bigger picture here, but I see no payoff, but to each their own.
Salseros are among the most passionate in their art.
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SoFloW
Son Montuno
I've been through this, though not unexpected it was still disheartening. In my work I deal with excited newbs and have to pretend I'm interested in their experiences. But in the end I sell tangible products, studios and instructors sell an experience. I thought I could talk to the instructor about my aha! moments in dance, we became friends, but instead he'd rather talk about anything but dance, mostly unloading about other people in the business and customers that frustrate him. So I learned some insider stuff about running a studio. In the end I wouldn't say the instructor didn't like dance, it's just the been there done that mindset.
I think you are right about this in any profession. Some experts are great teachers and love sharing and some experts are not.
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About 95% of my learning came from classes consisting of 1 to 5-6 couples, so it doesn't look that different, considering probably big difference in size of town where we did our learning
Social dancing you mentioned later (or whichever kind of practicing) is a separate topic, not that related to this
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Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
I am just a social dancer
IMO, the best social dancers are not known, except by other social dancers. I could list many no names, but probably better to stick with household names.
Out of the known celebrities, I like different dancers for different reasons. For simplicity’s sake, I will break it down to solo/musicality vs partnerwork.
Solo work/musicality: Terry Tauliaut, Vanessa Lacedonia, Alberto Valdes, Eddie Torres Jr, Ezgi Zaman, Magna Gopal, Bersy Cortez, Umberto Nocita, Fadi Fusion, Franklin Diaz
Partnering (ability to lead smooth and connected dances or who is just good at partnerwork): Jorge Ataca Burjos, Panagiotis Aglamisis, Rodrigo Cortazar, Tito Ortos, Jose Diaz, Oliver Pineda, Jariel Garcia, Mitchell Provence, Milton Cobo
People who are just good: Griselle Ponce, Tania Cannarsa, Ella Jauk, Tamara Livolsi, Cecile Ovide, Ana Garcia, Fernando Sosa, Adrian Arellano
Notable mentions who at one point I really enjoyed but who I'm no longer sold on or haven't done anything recently I have particularly enjoyed:
Maykel Fonts, Adolfo Indacochea, Marco Ferrigno, Frankie Martinez, Karel Flores, SuperMario, Alien Ramirez
Took me a while to compile this list. I'm sure it will change.
Thank you!
Francisco Fiko
Son
It does pay the bills... if you are at the elite level. Everything below that is an investment that may or may not pay off in the end...
Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
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How much do the Salsa celebs make teaching at a Salsa Congress?
Like Bersy and Karel? Or, any of the top guys?
(I am just curious)
How much do the Salsa celebs make teaching at a Salsa Congress?
Like Bersy and Karel? Or, any of the top guys?
(I am just curious)
mambocowboy
Son
The highest figure I have heard is $6000 for a weekend of teaching and performing for an elite name. If he does that once a month for 12 months that's 72,000 a year . Not much when you consider the pay doesn't include health insurance or pension..
That is actual a lot compared to the average US salary (56,000) which doesn't include health or pension.
That also didn't include privates and classes at their home or teams in different cities.
Working "in front" of the camera in any entertainment business is hard. But one does it for the love not the money.
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