any famous dancers that you think are extremely over rated?

[elanimal]

Yeah, it's that epic failed dance we discussed a year or two ago ....

I understand that he is giving the girls a challenge (I don't mean this clip but overall) ... if I were him, I woud probably do the same, trying to prevent the queue to get too long ...

It was funny that this dance was labeled a "fail" here, because by Terry's standards it is pretty "boring." But to me it looks more like the regular types of dances you see from Ataca, Mouaze, etc etc. He slowed down and IMO connected with Jorjet. Relaxed and decently musical yet still interesting, overall a very pleasant dance by the metrics of this particular forum, if the guy was anyone else but Terry.

And what I'm saying is that if he wanted to shorten the queue, all he would have to do is dance more like everyone else... i.e., just groove, always connect, obey the speed limit... paradoxical ain't it. There's a reason this video has such few views, while all the others he is so (in)famous for have a few more, and it's not because this video was 'bad' by any stretch.

 

[Gumercindo]

Terry is like playing a game on "impossible" level. You can play a game on easy all your life, or test yourself. I can see why a lot of girls want to dance with him, because they want to see if they can 'hang' and play at a higher level.

The gripe with Terry (in this weird corner of the salsa world) is not that he's overrated, but that he is 'not good' at adjusting to the level of his follower. To which I disagree.

I think Terry is giving what those endless lines of followers want. The challenge. That's the role he plays.

Because he can still dance like this:

Slow, relaxed, and even weak at some points where his signals fall below threshold. He understood Jorjet doesn't want that, especially not in platform stiletto heels.

It is easier to connect at a low, relaxed level, IMHO. Girls want to see if they can connect at 100 mph. Naturally, most don't.

Yikes, had never seen that one before. Slow and relaxed? Sure. Emotionless and sterile? Yep.

Something interesting to me is that he was all arms and upper body in that dance. Maybe the song was boring, maybe it was late, etc. I dunno, but man, it was very un-terry like/

 

[Smejmoon]

Hmmm.. Have you guys actually seen him or danced with him? Or just videos? He's versatile dancer in my experience.

 

[vit]

It was funny that this dance was labeled a "fail" here, because by Terry's standards it is pretty "boring." But to me it looks more like the regular types of dances you see from Ataca, Mouaze, etc etc. He slowed down and IMO connected with Jorjet. Relaxed and decently musical yet still interesting, overall a very pleasant dance by the metrics of this particular forum, if the guy was anyone else but Terry.

Well, opinions about the video were different back then. For me, it's by far her worst dance ever caught by the camera ...

 

[Offbeat]

We talking about at festivals or in general? Those people lining up at festivals are there to dance with celebs. It might be their only chance to do so, so why not? It's part of the congress experience.

Personally, I dislike congress culture because you are right. People do overestimate their abilities, which lead them to act more snooty than usual since they feel entitled to dancing with great dancers only. I'd rather stay at home and dance with the humble folk.

I'm still open to dance internationally, but I want to do it more at the local level. Every local scene has its own pulse and I like getting to know it

I really don't understand urge to dance with celebrity. When I have, it has been accidental because I didn't recognize who I am asking. Has happened many times. Sometimes I realise it was a celebrity after watching their video posted on the SF months later

I understand people coming to Congress and taking workshop after workshop even if it is counterproductive to take so many workshops in a day. Coming from the town where they hardly get to learn or take class from a celebrity they folk to festival classes and skip out on social dancing. That way they lose experience and flavour of social dancing beyond their small local scene. Taking so many workshop in a day means they retain very little. No time to internalize and practice what they learnt. Many of them have been dancing for year or two or three. So then it becomes they don't know what is right way to receive training and what is effective for them. Unless they have other dance background. Mostly they don't.

If people are so eager to dance with celebrities, why don't both the organizers and celebrities turn it into business proposition. Earmark a certain time window and zone where people pay to get a guaranteed social dance with celebrity so the organizers can say for two hours between 8pm and 10pm, you can pay $20 extra to get a guaranteed social dance with celebrity 1. Or you can buy a package for $50 get dances with 4 celebrities. Sell them an extra wrist band and only those with the wrist band can enter the cordened off zone.

 

[vit]

It is actually done on some parties, even on 1 or 2 bigger parties in my venue. There was a set of local celebrities (actually better dancers), their "lease hours" were published on the table - when people had to pay a dance with them for a small feee (something like 1 EUR I think, maybe 2 for a dance). Outside their lease time dancing with the was free. And collected money went for some humanitarian purpose ....

 

[Offbeat]

Girls want to see if they can connect at 100 mph. Naturally, most don't.

Very true.

If someone jumps from driving a sedan and takes a wheel at Porsche and tries to make a sharp turn at 100mph, they are still very likely to crash.

I have also heard similar arguments from followers about testing themselves against Terrying. But if he is not connecting with you or if you know you won't follow everything 100% what is the use? Even if a follower can follow everything when Terry is in Terrying mode, so what? Would they really want most of their other dances with the rest of the leaders to be terrying-esque?

Almost ninety percent of followers rank leader's repetoire of patterns at the bottom of what they expect in dancing. Most followers rank connection, smoothness, clarity in lead and musicality far ahead of how many patterns a leader knows. Yet when dancing with Terry they want to test themselves against what they value the least in everyday leader. Quiet an irony

 

[Offbeat]

It is actually done on some parties, even on 1 or 2 bigger parties in my venue. There was a set of local celebrities (actually better dancers), their "lease hours" were published on the table - when people had to pay a dance with them for a small feee (something like 1 EUR I think, maybe 2 for a dance). Outside their lease time dancing with the was free. And collected money went for some humanitarian purpose ....

The model should be exported to congresses

They can also introduce dance with celebrity auction where money goes to celebrity's choice of charity.

 

[Offbeat]

He's versatile dancer in my experience.

I don't believe there has been àny disagreement on that.

BTW to make similar analogy FM is also a very versatile dancer, but there are many times where he seems aloof or not engaging with the follower.

 

[Smejmoon]

I don't believe there has been àny disagreement on that.

BTW to make similar analogy FM is also a very versatile dancer, but there are many times where he seems aloof or not engaging with the follower.

Sure. Just I've seen Terry many times dancing away from cameras and queues. Sometimes intentionally running away from all that. And then he dances differently.

 

[vit]

BTW to make similar analogy FM is also a very versatile dancer, but there are many times where he seems aloof or not engaging with the follower.

Yeah, I was watching him on 2 congresses as well

My impression was that with many followers dance just didn't work well because of considerably different approach to dancing (inluding type of patterns and even timing), as most followers on those congresses were closer to terry type. So he didn't enjoy and it was quite visible on his face (similar with probably any dancer, just much more with him) and he eventually lost the inspiration to dance socially on those parties. I didn't blame him or followers, it was just like that and not much could have been done

However, my dancing with followers that went well with FM worked ok (one even asked me for a dance immediately after finishing dance with him), unlike my dancing with typical terry type followers that usually didn't work very well (if I asked them for a dance)

 

[Offbeat]

Sure. Just I've seen Terry many times dancing away from cameras and queues. Sometimes intentionally running away from all that. And then he dances differently.

And that too has been agreed and said more than a few times

I mostly use phone to read and reply. I start replying as I read. The order in which the remaining unread posts appear is little weird. E.g. your post to which I replied appeared immd. But the post before your post didn't show up to after I hit next page.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

If people are so eager to dance with celebrities, why don't both the organizers and celebrities turn it into business proposition. Earmark a certain time window and zone where people pay to get a guaranteed social dance with celebrity so the organizers can say for two hours between 8pm and 10pm, you can pay $20 extra to get a guaranteed social dance with celebrity 1. Or you can buy a package for $50 get dances with 4 celebrities. Sell them an extra wrist band and only those with the wrist band can enter the cordened off zone.

$20 for one dance? Great for celebs. They will make a killing But seriously, I am not so sure how people will react to having to pay to dance with their favorite celeb. It might go over well. It might not. Worth a try I guess.

I think the current congress format is okay for social dancing. At some festivals, organizers invite host dancers whose job it is to social dance with everyone. I think they should expand on this idea. Bring in artists whose job is to social dance instead of giving workshops. They get the same money. But their focus will be on the parties.

I still believe that workshops are the biggest draw at festivals for beginner/intermediate dancers. They get a chance to learn from their favorite instructor. Most people I know who are beginner/intermediate are too shy to ask a celeb for a dance. When the lights/cameras go on and the swarms of good dancers come onto the floor at night, those same people who went to the workshops will become spectators.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Coming from the town where they hardly get to learn or take class from a celebrity they folk to festival classes and skip out on social dancing. That way they lose experience and flavour of social dancing beyond their small local scene. Taking so many workshop in a day means they retain very little. No time to internalize and practice what they learnt.

I know tons of people like that. They attend every workshop and social dancing is a secondary priority. They are usually too exhausted to social dance at parties and tend to leave early.

Some people just enjoy the classroom environment. It's safe. They can learn something, which they can take back home to practice with. It's tangible material. Some people are just more suited to classroom learning than they are to spontaneous dancing.

I'm the complete opposite, but I can understand where the other side is coming from.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Almost ninety percent of followers rank leader's repetoire of patterns at the bottom of what they expect in dancing. Most followers rank connection, smoothness, clarity in lead and musicality far ahead of how many patterns a leader knows. Yet when dancing with Terry they want to test themselves against what they value the least in everyday leader. Quiet an irony

Yes but beginner dancers don't know that. They look at the flashy moves and imagine doing it themselves with a partner who can give it to them. I mean, who wouldn't want to be dipped and swept off their feet by a guy who knows what he's doing?

It's only when you've danced a while when you realize that patterns aren't everything, for both leaders and followers.

Terry represents the pinnacle of pattern craziness and as many people have said, a lot of the festival-goers who dance with him are way below his level, which lead to disconnection, discomfort and roughness.

 

[mambocowboy]

It was funny that this dance was labeled a "fail" here, because by Terry's standards it is pretty "boring." But to me it looks more like the regular types of dances you see from Ataca, Mouaze, etc etc. He slowed down and IMO connected with Jorjet. Relaxed and decently musical yet still interesting, overall a very pleasant dance by the metrics of this particular forum, if the guy was anyone else but Terry.

And what I'm saying is that if he wanted to shorten the queue, all he would have to do is dance more like everyone else... i.e., just groove, always connect, obey the speed limit... paradoxical ain't it. There's a reason this video has such few views, while all the others he is so (in)famous for have a few more, and it's not because this video was 'bad' by any stretch.

Very true.

If someone jumps from driving a sedan and takes a wheel at Porsche and tries to make a sharp turn at 100mph, they are still very likely to crash.

I have also heard similar arguments from followers about testing themselves against Terrying. But if he is not connecting with you or if you know you won't follow everything 100% what is the use? Even if a follower can follow everything when Terry is in Terrying mode, so what? Would they really want most of their other dances with the rest of the leaders to be terrying-esque?

Almost ninety percent of followers rank leader's repetoire of patterns at the bottom of what they expect in dancing. Most followers rank connection, smoothness, clarity in lead and musicality far ahead of how many patterns a leader knows. Yet when dancing with Terry they want to test themselves against what they value the least in everyday leader. Quiet an irony

The other irony is that while the majority of followers want a comfortable dance, dancing with a challenging lead like Terry is more likely to help them improve. Likewise, as a lead, if you're driving a Ferrari, why would you drive under the speed limit? Where's the enjoyment in that?

 

[Offbeat]

They can learn something, which they can take back home to practice with.

You are very optimistic. IME very few social dancers will practice dedicatedly once back home. Only time they practice is if they are on a team. That practice schedule is whatever team is working on.

 

[Offbeat]

the current congress format is okay for social dancing. At some festivals, organizers invite host dancers whose job it is to social dance with everyone. I think they should expand on this idea. Bring in artists whose job is to social dance instead of giving workshops. They get the same money. But their focus will be on the parties.

Yes but people will still want to dance with celebrities. Or unintended consequences would be that now we will have accidently created a new category of "celebrity social dancers" and all people want to dance with the "celebrity social dancers"

 

[Offbeat]

Likewise, as a lead, if you're driving a Ferrari, why would you drive under the speed limit? Where's the enjoyment in that?

Almost all advance followers I know dislike it and don't enjoy being put through their paces just for sake of it. Whether it is by someone of Terry's status or a beginner. Those followers are aware that non-advanced leads try to throw a whole bag of their repetoire at them or use them as spin machines. When the leaders' technique is weak, there is high probability of them injuring the follower or causing physical discomfort like yanking their arms, etc.

There is a very valid reason that star instructors are a bit wary of social dancing with someone they don't know. Or sitting it out and not doing too much dancing. Especially when dancing is means of their livelihood. If they get injured and have to skip performing, etc it directly hits their bottom line. When you are attending many events in a year, you can't underestimate the possibility running into some jerks who are on an ego trip (of trying to prove themselves at expense of the follower).

When it comes to dancing with very good dancers/followers, the less is more always works. Without throwing out an endless bunch of patterns and continuous spins after spins, there are many ways to enjoy dancing with the good followers.

I have never heard a social dancing complaint from follower that was on lines of "oh he doesn't do enough patterns" or "he doesn't lead enough spins". Not one. Nada.

Not to make analogy absurd, but you don't have to drive Ferrari up a mountain with nothing but a series of dangerous sharp turns and crooked curves.

 

[mambocowboy]

Almost all advance followers I know dislike it and don't enjoy being put through their paces just for sake of it. Whether it is by someone of Terry's status or a beginner. Those followers are aware that non-advanced leads try to throw a whole bag of their repetoire at them or use them as spin machines. When the leaders' technique is weak, there is high probability of them injuring the follower or causing physical discomfort like yanking their arms, etc.

There is a very valid reason that star instructors are a bit wary of social dancing with someone they don't know. Or sitting it out and not doing too much dancing. Especially when dancing is means of their livelihood. If they get injured and have to skip performing, etc it directly hits their bottom line. When you are attending many events in a year, you can't underestimate the possibility running into some jerks who are on an ego trip (of trying to prove themselves at expense of the follower).

When it comes to dancing with very good dancers/followers, the less is more always works. Without throwing out an endless bunch of patterns and continuous spins after spins, there are many ways to enjoy dancing with the good followers.

I have never heard a social dancing complaint from follower that was on lines of "oh he doesn't do enough patterns" or "he doesn't lead enough spins". Not one. Nada.

Not to make analogy absurd, but you don't have to drive Ferrari up a mountain with nothing but a series of dangerous sharp turns and crooked curves.

Id

Almost all advance followers I know dislike it and don't enjoy being put through their paces just for sake of it. Whether it is by someone of Terry's status or a beginner. Those followers are aware that non-advanced leads try to throw a whole bag of their repetoire at them or use them as spin machines. When the leaders' technique is weak, there is high probability of them injuring the follower or causing physical discomfort like yanking their arms, etc.

There is a very valid reason that star instructors are a bit wary of social dancing with someone they don't know. Or sitting it out and not doing too much dancing. Especially when dancing is means of their livelihood. If they get injured and have to skip performing, etc it directly hits their bottom line. When you are attending many events in a year, you can't underestimate the possibility running into some jerks who are on an ego trip (of trying to prove themselves at expense of the follower).

When it comes to dancing with very good dancers/followers, the less is more always works. Without throwing out an endless bunch of patterns and continuous spins after spins, there are many ways to enjoy dancing with the good followers.

I have never heard a social dancing complaint from follower that was on lines of "oh he doesn't do enough patterns" or "he doesn't lead enough spins". Not one. Nada.

Not to make analogy absurd, but you don't have to drive Ferrari up a mountain with nothing but a series of dangerous sharp turns and crooked curves.

I wasn't referring to non advanced dancers. There are good reasons why Terry's videos are watched by so many...when he dances with an advanced dancer, he knows what to do...a Ferrari is supposed to be driven over the speed limit...if you dance with a yamulee girl you're not going to spin her a little more than some beginner or intermediate girl?