No. If she's truly advanced dancer I want to see and hear how she dances and sings song for me. Spinning distracts from than.
any famous dancers that you think are extremely over rated?
- Thread starter granrey
- Start date
Well, with advanced followers I'll definitively go into some more demanding drive, breaking usual speed limits from time to time, however staying within the performance limits of the vehicle and trying not mistreating it. Most of them like to be switched into some kind of performance mode, as long as they feel things are under control
Tried to find a video some of terry's dance with not that good followers that would illustrate how 90% of the dances I watched looked like, but unfortunately, can't find any. Video with Jorjet is probably among the worst of his videos that are actually published, but still way better than dances I was talking about. I said it was failed just because it was much worse than one would expect from the dancers of that level / compared to their other recorded dances
Tried to find a video some of terry's dance with not that good followers that would illustrate how 90% of the dances I watched looked like, but unfortunately, can't find any. Video with Jorjet is probably among the worst of his videos that are actually published, but still way better than dances I was talking about. I said it was failed just because it was much worse than one would expect from the dancers of that level / compared to their other recorded dances
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alvinthethird
Son
The model should be exported to congresses
They can also introduce dance with celebrity auction where money goes to celebrity's choice of charity.
The Touch events have started doing something like this "Dance for a cause", over the last 2 years...people buy tickets to dance with a celeb, during a specified time- proceeds go to charity
Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
$20 for one dance? Great for celebs. They will make a killingBut seriously, I am not so sure how people will react to having to pay to dance with their favorite celeb. It might go over well. It might not. Worth a try I guess.
I think the current congress format is okay for social dancing. At some festivals, organizers invite host dancers whose job it is to social dance with everyone. I think they should expand on this idea. Bring in artists whose job is to social dance instead of giving workshops. They get the same money. But their focus will be on the parties.
I still believe that workshops are the biggest draw at festivals for beginner/intermediate dancers. They get a chance to learn from their favorite instructor. Most people I know who are beginner/intermediate are too shy to ask a celeb for a dance. When the lights/cameras go on and the swarms of good dancers come onto the floor at night, those same people who went to the workshops will become spectators.
A $20 Dance is not that odd. Stripper dance cost $25-$30 for a 3 minute song. Private is $50 per song.
I think it is a great idea. 1-2 hours of the Celeb Instructors charging to social dance during the parties.
Something like 2 songs for $50. Fans get some good dancing, a mini lesson and some professional feedback after the 2 songs.
It can be sold like this. ‘Live Dance Coaching’
Instead of.......Well, if you want to dance with Bersy you gotta pay her $50! Lol!
A lot more affordable than a private lesson. Probably more fun, too.
Maybe it is not odd to me since at Latin weddings and Quinceaneros there is always a moment on the dance floor where they do the $1 Dance. Family gives money to debutante and bride to dance with them.
mambocowboy
Son
As someone who remembers being an intermediate dancer and getting to dance with celebrities at congresses, I think it's ridiculous. We're already paying hotel, travel, and Congress passes, which the celebs are not. Certain promoters have had to put social dance clauses in celeb contracts to ensure they social dance. Just highlights to me how much things have deteriorated...I know I sound like a grouchy old man, but the scene was simply a better experience back in the early 2000s when I started....
Not really. Most private lessons in LA are 100.00 an hour. If someone paid 50 bucks then those songs/time should be 30mins at least. Since most songs are 5 min, it is a lot less affordable. I think the feedback would be horrible in that environment. Imagine being taught how to do something in front of 50 ppl.
I don't think it's ever a good idea to pay celebs for social dances. If someone is willing to pay $20 and up for a single dance, then they'd have no problems paying for a private with the same celeb for $100+ and it'd be a much better investment.
The onus should be on the organizer to ensure the celebs are there to social dance and factor that into their decision making process before inviting them to their congress.
Agree. Is it even possible for celebs to give privates at a congress?
There are only 72 hours in a standard congress weekend. Artists are using that time traveling, training for performances, teaching workshops, social dancing at parties, eating, sleeping, etc. When would they ever have time to give a private at a congress? Unless it is for an absurd price like $500/h, I don't see how it's even a thing.
The onus should be on the organizer to ensure the celebs are there to social dance and factor that into their decision making process before inviting them to their congress.
Agree. Is it even possible for celebs to give privates at a congress?
There are only 72 hours in a standard congress weekend. Artists are using that time traveling, training for performances, teaching workshops, social dancing at parties, eating, sleeping, etc. When would they ever have time to give a private at a congress? Unless it is for an absurd price like $500/h, I don't see how it's even a thing.
Dancewithme
Son
Well, in congresses I always use the opportunity to dance with all the teachers multiple times with each. Of course if it does not require standing in a line. And the party passes does not cost as much as full ones. So, if doing calculations in terms of money, in bigger congresses a dance with a teacher being on the poster costs just a few $ if not less. And in EU there are quite many great poster boys who are awesome social dancers.
Oh yes, they do. Sometimes I see posts on FB where teachers are asking people to write to them if they want some privates during a festival weekend. I have even seen a couple of privates being held next to wardrobes (more than one event). I guess it would not seem too ethical to use the workshop rooms even if they are free from lessons.
mambocowboy
Son
Yes plenty of performers squeeze in privates at congresses. A good deal for them because they're not paying any studio fee. Trust me, I learned from my last team just how much of a business salsa has become. Don't assume that because you love dancing, that your teacher/director does too....
Francisco Fiko
Son
What do you mean by that?
mambocowboy
Son
I mean I've been around some who don't and have confided that they don't. Inevitably it shows in their dancing to the trained eye and their students' lack of progress...
Yes
That is their main source of income at the festivals. Only the tier one artists get room and airfare. The next tier gets only the room. And so on.
They try to squeeze in as many privates as possible.
Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
You are looking at it in that context. Some people come all the way from other countries to these dance festivals. For them to spend $50 to dance with their favorite teachers.....is an opportunity. It is not supposed to be a full blown lesson. It is a few dances and to ask a question on something you have problems with.
Or, to learn their signature move, etc.
Pa’ gozar!!
The energy is different. You are at the party. Everyone is dressed up and the energy is high.
Vs. a standard studio private class.
Plus, I am a HUGE believer in taking care of your teachers and supporting the dance community.
Some people complain how the Salsa scene is boring in their cities. It is probably because teachers cannot make money in your city.
It is more than that. If I have been taking online lessons with a teacher. Or, if I go on You Tube and their dancing inspire me to keep dancing. To work harder, etc.
I am not going to be counting my pennies with them.
Plus, there is a good chance....if I did dance with my favorite teacher......I will come home and dance even harder....because, I am freshly motivated.
Dancing is not a cheap hobby. It is not easy on the body. Plus, you gotta look a certain way. It is hard work! $$$
I am not going to worry about $50!
(I want to spend on my favorite teacher at a Congress)
Think about this next time you go to any dance festival. Try to buy something from the teachers. Then next time they are asked to participate.....they will want to because they felt supported by their fans. Sometimes, you see teachers stop attending certain festivals.....and, it is because the ‘side hustle’ wasn’t profitable.
Yes, dance teachers teach private lessons during these festivals. Most even stay a few extra days to make that money.
Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
Well, this is different. If the party is promoted as a social dance with your teachers......well, then no need to pay.
I mean when we show up to work.....we don’t pay for anything, either. Does your boss ask you to pay a portion of the rent, electricity and the bottled water??? No!
So, why should featured dance teachers???
Ok, but dance teachers have bills, too. They are only paid to work at the festivals.
Think about their expenses too. Teaching equipment, costumes, personal expenses, music, insurance, etc. Think about all that travel time......they are not getting paid. All the time spent on social media.
Some have studios back at their home base....so, they gotta take care of that, too.
If a costume cost $1,000.....think of all the dance classes they have to give....just to afford that.
It is not cheap....being a dance teacher, either.
Plus, they should have some savings, too. If they get hurt......they cannot work.
Support your teachers! Better yet....if the Congress are too expensive for you.....then invest some of that money (what you can comfortably afford) directly on a good teacher.
And, I forgot, some of these Congress teachers still compete. So, at times they are also paying the same fees as regular Congress salsa students.
They are not getting paid for the 20-30 of dance hours practice they might be doing each week. They can do this for 2-3 months just for one choreography.
None of these teachers have a rich spouse at home which allows them to travel freely teaching salsa classes for fun. ..........It is a j.o.b!
That reminds me. At a WCS festival a few months back they had a pass for something close to what we are discussing. They called it bite size lessons. It was a 15 minute lesson on the side of social dancing with your fav celebrity teacher. You could ask any of the teachers and they would work with you for 15 minutes in midst of social dancing. They were selling it as a package of x number of 15 minutes. The instructor would sign your card after the 15 minute lesson. It seemed to work well. I saw good dancers taking tips and working on it on the side during social dancing. It was targeted to dancers who wanted a specific tip or advise about a particular element of dance. Most dancers taking advantage of it were intermediate or above.
For those not familiar with WCS, the scene and the festivals:
- taking privates is very common compared to salsa
- teachers are usually really good at what they do unlike salsa
- there is no wide spread performance dancing culture in WCS. Therefore teachers really have to be good to become famous. I haven't come across any WCS teacher who is not an excellent social dancer.
- Almost every dancer participates in J&Js. The J&J are in multiple formats from random partners, advance-beginner partners, age difference (at least 20 years), according to skill level, etc. A lot of festival time is spend all these multiple J&J's competitions. Besides workshops and privates.
- Dancing typically starts at midnight after the last competition of the day and goes on till 6-7am in the morning (American salsa festivals usually finish at 2am to 4am. San Francisco SBK is exception to that by closing at 7am).
- WCS celebrities behave like normal social dancers and dance a lot. Anyone asking anyone is very common. I can't think of any other dance where the female super-celebrities come and ask a random guy like me they never seen before for a dance.
- people don't dress well most dress functional - for dancing.
- dance to wide variety and sometimes crappy music.
- people invest in learning and generally improve
- age ranges from 20s to 60s or more. No one age group dominates.
Of course all above is in California where most of the WCS as danced now originated and thrives.
During WCS social dancing, I at times see two people go to the side and try to work out a move. In tango people do that in practica. In salsa I don't think I have seen anything similar. At most in salsa you have to find somebody who is willing to practice and the set time to go do it by yourself. Practice after a team lesson or group lesson doesn't count because it only has the participants present. A random dancer can't walk in and practice with another random person.
For those not familiar with WCS, the scene and the festivals:
- taking privates is very common compared to salsa
- teachers are usually really good at what they do unlike salsa
- there is no wide spread performance dancing culture in WCS. Therefore teachers really have to be good to become famous. I haven't come across any WCS teacher who is not an excellent social dancer.
- Almost every dancer participates in J&Js. The J&J are in multiple formats from random partners, advance-beginner partners, age difference (at least 20 years), according to skill level, etc. A lot of festival time is spend all these multiple J&J's competitions. Besides workshops and privates.
- Dancing typically starts at midnight after the last competition of the day and goes on till 6-7am in the morning (American salsa festivals usually finish at 2am to 4am. San Francisco SBK is exception to that by closing at 7am).
- WCS celebrities behave like normal social dancers and dance a lot. Anyone asking anyone is very common. I can't think of any other dance where the female super-celebrities come and ask a random guy like me they never seen before for a dance.
- people don't dress well
most dress functional - for dancing. - dance to wide variety and sometimes crappy music.
- people invest in learning and generally improve
- age ranges from 20s to 60s or more. No one age group dominates.
Of course all above is in California where most of the WCS as danced now originated and thrives.
During WCS social dancing, I at times see two people go to the side and try to work out a move. In tango people do that in practica. In salsa I don't think I have seen anything similar. At most in salsa you have to find somebody who is willing to practice and the set time to go do it by yourself. Practice after a team lesson or group lesson doesn't count because it only has the participants present. A random dancer can't walk in and practice with another random person.
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Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
That reminds me. At a WCS festival a few months back they had a pass for something close to what we are discussing. They called it bite size lessons. It was a 15 minute lesson on the side of social dancing with your fav celebrity teacher. You could ask any of the teachers and they would work with you for 15 minutes in midst of social dancing. They were selling it as a package of x number of 15 minutes. The instructor would sign your card after the 15 minute lesson. It seemed to work well. I saw good dancers taking tips and working on it on the side during social dancing. It was targeted to dancers who wanted a specific tip or advise about a particular element of dance. Most dancers taking advantage of it were intermediate or above.
For those not familiar with WCS, the scene and the festivals:
- taking privates is very common compared to salsa
- teachers are usually really good at what they do unlike salsa
- there is no wide spread performance dancing culture in WCS. Therefore teachers really have to be good to become famous. I haven't come across any WCS teacher who is not an excellent social dancer.
- Almost every dancer participates in J&Js. The J&J are in multiple formats from random partners, advance-beginner partners, age difference (at least 20 years), according to skill level, etc. A lot of festival time is spend all these multiple J&J's competitions. Besides workshops and privates.
- Dancing typically starts at midnight after the last competition of the day and goes on till 6-7am in the morning (American salsa festivals usually finish at 2am to 4am. San Francisco SBK is exception to that by closing at 7am).
- WCS celebrities behave like normal social dancers and dance a lot. Anyone asking anyone is very common. I can't think of any other dance where the female super-celebrities come and ask a random guy like me they never seen before for a dance.
- people don't dress well
- dance to wide variety and sometimes crappy music.
- people invest in learning and generally improve
- age ranges from 20s to 60s or more. No one age group dominates.
Of course all above is in California where most of the WCS as danced now originated and thrives.
During WCS social dancing, I at times see two people go to the side and try to work out a move. In tango people do that in practica. In salsa I don't think I have seen anything similar. At most in salsa you have to find somebody who is willing to practice and the set time to go do it by yourself. Practice after a team lesson or group lesson doesn't count because it only has the participants present. A random dancer can't walk in and practice with another random person.
Yes, this is exactly what I am talking about! 2 songs to practice what you wish and some time for feedback chat. During social dance is perfect....good vibes already.
WCS is swing dance??? I had a chance to go to Swing Dance festival recently. The set-up was really nice. The schedule was jam packed. They stay up until 4:00 AM and even had a midnight buffet.
The teachers were so nice. Everyone was dressed really nice in the evenings.
To be honest, many Salsa teachers haven’t earned that right to be paid for social dancing.
The rise of the unqualified salsa teacher has effectively ruined any shot of that happening.
Salsa is the one dance where I expect to be able to dance with anybody anywhere, teachers included. It is then my responsibility to seek them out.
The main problem is that teachers do not make themselves available for social dancing.
I am not saying they should all social dance, but organizers should then make it clear who is there to dance and who isn’t.
There is a video from the Berlin Salsa Congress which spoke about artists not social dancing enough. Even amongst artists, almost everyone agreed that teachers should be dancing more often at parties.
If i go to a fan convention, I would expect to get an autograph from my favorite actor and I would find it ludicrous to have to pay for one.
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RogueBlader
Son
Yikes, I wouldn't attend fan conventions if I were you right now. The last few that I've been to had actors regularly charging £20 and upwards for autographs and pictures , depending on their popularity (thanks, eBay!). Salsa hasn't gone down that route yet as far as I can see. Yet.
Me Gusta La Salsa
Changui
But, it is not a free autograph if you have to pay for the convention ticket.
My thing is people should not expect anything for free.
Do we all love free things? Of course!
But, must keep in mind that these celebs are their own brand and can charge as they wish for what they wish.
In my dance genre, the teachers are very friendly and approachable. But, there is a subtle sign that they wish to be supported.
They usually come in with an assistant and a table is set up next to their teaching stage. They usually display DVDs, CDs, costume resale, etc.
When you go up to the stage after class to talk to them......you have to walk by the merching table first.
I am not sure why a teacher would not like to socialize and get themselves more fans....i.e. customers. I guess that is up to them.
I think we can all agree that most of these Congress Salsa teachers were never meant to teach. I have experience this myself. I cannot stand when a teacher spends most of her time teaching with her back to me.
Please learn to teach dance on your left side, instead!
They come off as they are dancing....instead of teaching.
I honestly think they cannot effectively teach doing the footwork and move the arms at the same time. This is the real reason they turned around a lot.
I have asked them to allow us to also see the front. After 2 sequences I can see them struggling with the arms....and, they turn around again to solely focus on footwork.
I have noticed that most Congress teachers are competition winners. So, they were #1 out of 10 dancers.....and, 7 were sucking already. LOL
I have also noticed that ‘the hot couple of the moment’ enters every competition.
Then win!
But, when they recently went on TV (to compete, again!) they kept performing the same routine. (As they all tend to do)
Jennifer Lopez told them. Ok, we already know you can do that. Do something else. Then they didn’t change their routine and were eliminated.
What exactly is a World Salsa Champion? Some claim this like 5 times!
We gotta work with what is available today in this circuit.
Just like musicians. There will never be Fania All Stars talent in our lifetime ever again.
Also, in my dance genre....those girls get like 10-50 million views on their You Tube videos.
The Congress Salsa girls can barely manage a few 1,000 views and a blank comment section. I always find this so odd. Why?