You can shine but your partner can't

M

Mala

Taking up from the Moves Girls Hate thread, what do you guys think of this situation---

You desperately want to dance wonderfully but your partner/s know just five or six standard moves, boring you to death. Do you break away and do some freestyling and shines? Or is that really mean? It leaves the other person, who isn't that great at dancing, feeling rather silly and just doing some basic! On the other hand... when the hell else do you do your stuff?

Mala
 
You desperately want to dance wonderfully but your partner/s know just five or six standard moves, boring you to death.
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Only a few months ago, one of my instructors told me the most useful single thing I can remember in any class :-

'When your dancing, remember it is you, the leader, who worries more about being bored than the follower. DO NOT let this stress you into trying overcomplicated routines that you don't know well. You may have done the same routines, 15 times over, and be worried that it's getting a bit repetative - your follower has danced with 15 different partners in that time, all of whom use different routines. You are the one getting bored, not her'

In my opinion, if your partner only knows 5-6 moves, do those 5-6 moves WELL, repeatedly, until such time as you have built up enough trust and rapport to add another move into the mix. Even then I try to make a variation of one they already know - they know CBL, then add CBL with a clockwise turn, then CBL with a travelling turn etc.

Do you break away and do some freestyling and shines? Or is that really mean? It leaves the other person, who isn't that great at dancing, feeling rather silly and just doing some basic!
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I like my shines. I enjoy getting out there and wiggling or using fancy footwork, and getting the approving look from your follower when you've done a smooth routine, or a good move. In my experience, many people who have danced in nightclubs will be happy with shines, putting their normal dancefloor wiggles into a mambo. As long as your both still on time, it'll look good.

However many other times, when breaking away to do shines it's become immediately apparent that it's freaked out my follower, or they have simply stepped into basic not knowing what else to do. For me, if they've done three-four bars of mambo, without extra style, I'll guess they're not comfortable with it, and take them back into partner mode.

You can often tell by the expression on their face as well - panicky, 'rabbit-in-the-headlights' facial expressions are a good sign your partner doesn't like shines :)

On the other hand... when the hell else do you do your stuff?
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If you're not enjoying dancing with this partner, and feeling bored, there's only one answer to this - with another partner.

Ask yourself why you are dancing - 1) so you can feel and look good, 2) so your follower can feel and look good, or 3) so you both can feel and look good.

Ideally the latter. Failing that, personally, option two has priority over option one.

Just my thoughts...
 
Actually here I'm talking about partners that aren't fixed.... and that are people you're sort of stuck with. Not much choice. So we're going on for years on end with not much improvement --me being the bored follower. Who wants to do some shines.

mala
 
Sadly limited. India. New Delhi. Also very "politicised", groups from certain dance schools stick like glue to each other. Anyway, the end result is that I'm entirely stuck with limited partners who're not even that interested in getting better and are in it for the socializing and partying--fair enough--but what it leaves me stuck with is the need to dance good and look good, because I love and spend hours on salsa. There's no outlet, so to speak. So, under those conditions, is it rude or unkind to break away for short spells of shines and freestyle?

mala
 
Mala, do these dancers take classes? The reason I ask is that most times, unless you're from the same area where shines are the norm, two different dancers are coming from two completely different places. In my experience, shines were taught as afterthought. In an hour, they would spend three minutes on shines and 57 minutes on partner work. Even though I was always one who never had a problem doing them, many had an extreme problem when it came to "shine" when they went out into the real Salsa world. I'm not saying the you should do shines the whole song or should be excellent at them (Salsa is supposed to be a partner dance) but I do believe that there is a method to the madness of shines. The main advantage of shines I believe are to "get in tuned with the music" as an individual dancer. This is what is not stressed at some classes. Now, as you've mentioned before, most of them seem to be only interested in Salsa socially as opposed to advancing in skill which is fine as well.

So, what can we do? If there is no option to dance with anyone else, you will have to be creative or engaging with what you have. Believe me, there are some beautiful dances that come from just being more creative at the basics and eventually your creativity will catch on. Now, this creativity I'm speaking of is what I like to call "quietly hijacking". To elaborate, there are an infinite numbers of ways to enhance, as a follow, such basics as a CBL, a right or left turn, etc. I sometimes think of Salsa as a dance of romance or a dance of engagement and as follows, there is great power in our styling if we're creative. If it's just a simple CBL, the follow should romantically engage the lead while executing the CBL. Whether it's a gentle stroke on his arm or a wink after it's completed. In order to get more from the dance, you have to engage your partner to a point of where they will try new things, most times without them even knowing it. ;) We as follows can even hijack a lead into T-Stance if we're creative enough. :raisebrow: I've done it many times and those are the best dances I've ever had. Those that started out really simple and turned out to be the most beautiful. :)

Now, is it rude or unkind to break away for short spells of shines and freestyle? Well, for the most part, yes unfortunately. Particularly, if they are not comfortable with doing it. But again, if you're creativie enough, you can engage them into doing even if it's only for 10 seconds. A good friend of mine and I were having a discussion one day about how he doesn't do shines and was afraid to dance as much because of them. So last week, he finally had the courage to dance with me. All it took was a few hip rolls, a couple of quiet shouts of WEPA in his ear and BAM! He was shinning and didn't even know it. ;) Not that I'm that great but my point is that I got a little creative, engaged and encouraged him in the dance and once he felt comfortable, he didn't have a problem. :) Hope this helps, Mala. :)
 
as a fairly new arrival to the salsa scene I get absolutely freaked out if my lead does a lot of shines...some guys jsut leave me doing the basic for what seems like an endless period of time while they are busy struttin' their stuff....I consider this totally rude and if they ask me to dance again I say with a smile, only if you promise not to do your fancy footwork!

ps- I am going to start learning shines this w/e....!
 
Mala said:
...You desperately want to dance wonderfully but your partner/s know just five or six standard moves, boring you to death. Do you break away and do some freestyling and shines? Or is that really mean? It leaves the other person, who isn't that great at dancing, feeling rather silly and just doing some basic! On the other hand... when the hell else do you do your stuff?...
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This is a two part problem. Yours and His

His: If he only knows a few standard moves his problem is that he just knows that: moves. He has not yet understood the source of his moves, therefore he does not feel the need or the ability to change them.

Yours: If you really are that much better, you should be able to play with your footwork even as you follow him in his limited repertoire. Ask your teacher to show you how to change your footwork or motion without pushing him off the beat or altering his posture. Then you can make your partner look good.

And yes, it is rude and mean to break off from his hold just because you want to shine. The way I see it, if you follow him well, even if he only has the basic step or faulty leads, soon enough the better dancers will notice that you are a good dancer and ask you to dance with them.
 
Wow..thanks for a bunch of very well thought through answers. Yes, I think this is what I'll do--creative moves with the partner and some slight teaching of shines (or shinelets). But all that said and done... it does get a bit boring after years to barely be able to anyof the things I've spent time on-- by myself, not in class. My class hasn't even got to that level of interest. I'm limited to dancing with two or three guys--no other choices. The salsa scene is more limited in India and not as open either.

mala
 
As a leader, if a lady broke away from me and started shining on her own, I'd think it was very rude.

I can normally read when my partner wants to shine and I'll lead her into it. But, a woman who deliberately broke my hold wouldn't get asked to dance again.
 
Well, in this case what's happening is that this stuck-with partners from my class couldn't care less! I think it's rude, but they seem to be content to stand around and basic. No interest in learning how to shine or freestyle because the agendas are different.

mala
 
Mala said:
...this stuck-with partners from my class couldn't care less! I think it's rude, but they seem to be content to stand around and basic. No interest in learning how to shine or freestyle because the agendas are different...
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Well, no. If you and they know that they dance for other reasons, it is not rude. It is however, unrealistic in your part to expect more from them. Maybe you want to change schools, go to other clubs, who knows, maybe they are just intimidated by a girl who is in it just for the dancing.
 
Maybe take a couple of them aside, individually, and 'teach' them the T-Stance.

If they're not really interested in improving their dancing, being able to stand still for a while, with your follower doing all the work might be a very attractive option to them... :)
 
Mala said:
Well, in this case what's happening is that this stuck-with partners from my class couldn't care less! I think it's rude, but they seem to be content to stand around and basic. No interest in learning how to shine or freestyle because the agendas are different.

mala
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Mala, maybe you can get with your instructor about reccommending a "practice partner". Someone with the same interest and goals? That may be one option. Instructors most times will have a good eye for the dancers who are interested in improving the art. :D
 
LongHairedLeader said:
Maybe take a couple of them aside, individually, and 'teach' them the T-Stance.

If they're not really interested in improving their dancing, being able to stand still for a while, with your follower doing all the work might be a very attractive option to them... :)
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That's a good suggestion.

Personally, I regret the growth of the T Stance as it's encouraged me not to shine - I think I might give it up and go back to shines :D
 
Mala said:
You desperately want to dance wonderfully but your partner/s know just five or six standard moves, boring you to death. Do you break away and do some freestyling and shines? Or is that really mean? It leaves the other person, who isn't that great at dancing, feeling rather silly and just doing some basic! On the other hand... when the hell else do you do your stuff?
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I wouldn't break away from the leader to freestyle unless:
1) He's a non-dancer trying to grope you, or
2) I know he's great at shines and wouldn't mind

Since your situation is neither of these cases, I would not break away. I think it's very rude, and if the guy is a relative beginner, it will at best put you in his mental list of nasty followers (and he'll remember it when he becomes a good dancer) and at worst even turn him off the idea of sticking to salsa (not a good idea if you want your scene to grow!).

I have successfully educated :roll: some leaders about the power of T-stance (by doing all sorts of foot styling and wiggling when he's doing basic -- if they have seen the T-stance, they might take the hint ;)), but if the guy just wants to repeat the 5-6 moves he knows, that's fine by me. It's only 3-4 minutes out of your night.

As for people from other dance schools keeping themselves to themselves... have you tried asking any of them to dance? Do they say no? The cliqueiness may be real, but sometimes it's only perceived. You won't find out which until you try.
 
A blindingly simple answer to this question, and one which you probably already do :-

Get up and dance on your own. Do your styling, shining and wiggling without the 'encumbrance' of a limited partner. It's not the same as partner dancing but it gives you a chance to 'do your stuff'.

Certainly for myself though, those followers wiggling on the sidelines are often the ones I ask to dance ASAP - they're obviously wanting to dance, and not afraid of it. So you might only get one or two solo dances before you get snatched up :)
 
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