World's Best Leads E-mail From Edie

[Salsamakossa]

Chr,

Have you been disagreeing again??

Let me try this again: if you are dancing a certain style, and that style breaks forward on beat X in the music, it is good idea to break forward always on the beat X in the music, and never on beat X+5. This way you can get used to how the timing of your moves fit the different timing of breaks in the music. My point is that it makes it easier to learn how to catch breaks. I hope it's ok this way

It is a very good advise to somone who always dances the same style. I also completely agree that one should be perfectly aware of the difference between X and X+5.

OTOH, if you dance in an environment of different style dancers, then the opposite advice is as valid: try to dance the same song with as many timings as possible, in order to get a feel for the different possible interpretations of the music.

 

[chr]

I am a bit confused. Are you implying versatility in dancing to mean dancing multiple styles in a single song/dance? Or to dance different styles , but being consistent about style during a single song/dance?

I've already made the remark that switching the beat within a single dance is a very very bad idea for various reasons. (E.g. It is prone to accidents...)

What I mean by versatility is a capability of expressing different aspects of the same music by different dancing styles (in different dances, of course).

 

[Salsamakossa]

Noobster,

You level headed counter,,, lol.

By the way, I think it is much better to mix up all the different styles, going forward, or backward whenever I am in the mood. Makes for a real potpourri...

Let me try this again: if you are dancing a certain style, and that style breaks forward on beat X in the music, it is good idea to break forward always on the beat X in the music, and never on beat X+5. This way you can get used to how the timing of your moves fit the different timing of breaks in the music. My point is that it makes it easier to learn how to catch breaks. I hope it's ok this way

This is the best reason I ever heard not to switch the leader's and follower's timing.

(Of course, I hope you guys mean X+4 and not X+5, otherwise I am really confused!)

OTOH, if you dance in an environment of different style dancers, then the opposite advice is as valid: try to dance the same song with as many timings as possible, in order to get a feel for the different possible interpretations of the music.

Maybe; but if you're trying to learn how to predict breaks and match your moves to them, wouldn't it be easier to stick with one style, one timing, and one directional convention while experimenting? Otherwise you have too many variables in your experiments.

 

[Offbeat]

That was a quick reply ! I had barely finished editing my previous post.

I am a bit confused. Are you implying versatility in dancing to mean dancing multiple styles in a single song/dance? Or to dance different styles , but being consistent about style during a single song/dance?

Thanks. I am a bit dense today :lol:

What threw me off was this: then the opposite advice is as valid: try to dance the same song with as many timings as possible, in order to get a feel for the different possible interpretations of the music. I was pretty sure you didn't mean within the same song.

I've already made the remark that switching the beat within a single dance is a very very bad idea for various reasons. (E.g. It is prone to accidents...)

You know to some, different timing within single dance just comes naturally.... just kidding

 

[tj]

I've already made the remark that switching the beat within a single dance is a very very bad idea for various reasons. (E.g. It is prone to accidents...)

Ah, ok. Thought you were talking about changing in a single song. Since you're not, I follow what you're saying.

 

[peterfige]

I ask if anyone else here manages to predict breaks to music they have not heard before

For some songs I'm doing pretty well, for some others I am miserable For me presonally I don't like if an unknown song is boring, and I don't like if an unknown song is too "creative". I like when an unknown song obeys the "salsa music rules" I destilled after years. In that case I can get the breaks in the song. Kind of like the musicians and me are thinking the same way.

You still haven't explained how it's possible for Peter (or anyone) to hit the accents from the first second

Well it's not really possible for me unless I have heard the song before. However I don't need to remember something like "second basic, 8th count". If you listen carefully, that very first break is on the last (5th) beat of the clave, exactly on 8. This - at least form me - creates a certain thrill effect: an accent on 1 would be too obvious, so an accent on 8 is surprising and has this "thrill" of waiting longer for the next tone (on 3).

This happens in a lot of songs. Sometimes the clave is not playing at all, still the preparation of the accent is following the clave, and the last beat of the clave is the break.

So what I remember is not the exact place of the accent, but "it's a kind of song playing a lot with the clave 8".

 

[Offbeat]

I ask if anyone else here manages to predict breaks to music they have not heard before

For some songs I'm doing pretty well, for some others I am miserable For me presonally I don't like if an unknown song is boring, and I don't like if an unknown song is too "creative". I like when an unknown song obeys the "salsa music rules" I destilled after years. In that case I can get the breaks in the song. Kind of like the musicians and me are thinking the same way.

Only time I hear salsa music is when I go dancing. Therefore a lot of time the music is not something I heard before. I find it relatively easy to predict the breaks most of the time.

 

[chr]

For some songs I'm doing pretty well, for some others I am miserable For me presonally I don't like if an unknown song is boring, and I don't like if an unknown song is too "creative". I like when an unknown song obeys the "salsa music rules" I destilled after years. In that case I can get the breaks in the song. Kind of like the musicians and me are thinking the same way.

Only time I hear salsa music is when I go dancing. Therefore a lot of time the music is not something I heard before. I find it relatively easy to predict the breaks most of the time.

Then you should make your own video teaching that skill...

Off (for peter): Udvozlet a forumon! Bocsi a kotekedesert! Remelem lesz valamikor alkalmam eloben tanulni toled.

 

[pr]

Welcome peterfige!

 

[t0mt0m]

Excellent breakdown!

One note: This is "typical" and if you wish, you'll find many, many exceptions. If you really, really understand this, you'll quickly recognize another song with a variation of this form. Once you know the 3-5 major variations, you will cover 90% of the music on the floor.

Those major variations - where would you find out more?

 

[AguaDulce]

I'm sure the Masacote DVD is good. He's an excellent dancer/instructor. And the more that these musicality DVDs get made, the more focus there will be.

Any review of this Masacote musicality DVD?

 

[azzey]

Those major variations - where would you find out more?

It's up to you to do the work yourself. There are no resources to help you here. Once you can follow the breakdown that I provided. Choose some of your favourite songs and do a breakdown of the music yourself. Keep doing this until you see a pattern of songs that have similar arrangements. There is a VAST amount of old Salsa music out there, but most clubs only play a small variety so it shouldn't take you long to peg the arrangements for the most common songs in your area.

 

[sweavo]

It's up to you to do the work yourself. There are no resources to help you here. Once you can follow the breakdown that I provided. Choose some of your favourite songs and do a breakdown of the music yourself. Keep doing this until you see a pattern of songs that have similar arrangements. There is a VAST amount of old Salsa music out there, but most clubs only play a small variety so it shouldn't take you long to peg the arrangements for the most common songs in your area.

Another thing that can help you with doing this on the fly is to learn about the "standard breaks" in salsa. You can find these in the "salsa guidebook" by Rebeca Mauleon. This is a book for musicians that talks about how to create a good salsa sound. There's a section with about 10 "standard breaks" in it which you can start to notice in music (or at least that will help you activate your ear for listening to them).

How this relates to the structure of a song? Well, these little breaks and details are usually used to herald the coming of the next secion. So although I rarely know just what's coming next, I can usually tell when it's coming, which is a major part of the task!

 

[AguaDulce]

Another thing that can help you with doing this on the fly is to learn about the "standard breaks" in salsa. You can find these in the "salsa guidebook" by Rebeca Mauleon. This is a book for musicians that talks about how to create a good salsa sound. There's a section with about 10 "standard breaks" in it which you can start to notice in music (or at least that will help you activate your ear for listening to them).

How this relates to the structure of a song? Well, these little breaks and details are usually used to herald the coming of the next secion. So although I rarely know just what's coming next, I can usually tell when it's coming, which is a major part of the task!

Thanks for the tip. I might try to check out a copy of this book.

 

[SalsaManiac]

Any review of this Masacote musicality DVD?

Review here

 

[AguaDulce]

02.08.09

Dance DVD Review: The World’s Best Salsa Leads with Edie the Salsafreak and Ronald WeberinkPosted in Salsa, dance dvds tagged Edie the Salsa Freak, ON1, ON2, Ronald Weberink, Salsa, World's best leads at 9:50 pm by ballroomsaladancer

Ok So Edie the “Salsafreak” has been traveling around the world, and producing DVDs with the dancers that really impress her. This particular DVD can be found at dancefreak.com/videos/ronald.htm , along with some clips.

What I like about this DVD is the Edie explains what she is feeling from a followers viewpoint, and what make this particular dancer’s lead good. Since dancers come in all shapes in sizes, its nice to hear from the same followers viewpoint, how the lead of someone who is much taller than here feels, versus if that person was the same height or shorter.

There are 20 combinations on this DVD and I list some of my favorites further down. All them strike me as fairly lead-able for the Intermediate and Advanced student. They will make a nice addition to any one’s salsa vocabulary. Also Edie’s DVDs are always very reasonably priced. You can by this DVD for 30 dollars or get it along with Vol. 1 (which I will review later) for 50 dollars total plus shipping and handling of course. I feel this is very fair pricing.

The only criticisms that I can come up with are I have a quite a few of the ‘best leads’ DVDs now and this is one of the weaker ones. The video quality is not nearly as clear as her other DVDs. Also all moves are shown on1 and on2 but its obvious that Ronald is not comfortable on2. I give the DVD 3 stars out of five. It is not a bad addition to you libary but there are other DVDS in the “Worlds Best Salsa Leads” series that I would buy before it.
summary-Favorite Techniques

Combo #1

Combo #2

Combo #3

Combo #4

Combo #9

Combo #11

Combo #12

Combo #14

Combo #18
youtube.com/watch?v=QpznQ0_AWGs&eurl=http://www.dancefreak.com/videos/ronald.htm