Why, oh Why, Won't Anyone Dance with Me?

are there too many follows at that place? if not, then it's really interesting. Intimidation could be a factor, if guys dance with you once and hesitate to try more, that probably means they feel uneasy to dance with you because you are too advanced. In that case, you really have to step forward to them and just say "let me teach you", when that is said, they probably will put down the baggage on their back and enjoy it.

one interesting thing is that usually, leads would like to dance with someone who's a little less advanced than himself, and follows will always want to dance with someone who's the top dog on the turf.
 
kkksss said:
you really have to step forward to them and just say "let me teach you"
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yikes! good ideas, but i feel most men would run a mile from that one...

agreed on the men would rather be 'better', perceived position of power. i danced with a beginner the other day, and he told me i should look up and not worry about my feet. guilty as charged....i kept glancing down, because i was worrying about the whole "no dances" issue which led him to come and ask me for a pity dance. :oops: so i said, "good point, thank you" and he proceeded to barrage me with teaching points (mostly bogus, lol) the rest of the song, while i waited for him to realise i wasnt a beginner. in the end, i had to tell him that actually i'm a mean girl with a twisted sense of humour. :( and sink even further into paranoia....usually even doing basic step, beginners can tell i'm not a beginner. if i've lost my wiggle, then we're all doomed. dooooomed, i tell you! ;) but he was enjoying the dance so much while he was my 'teacher', then got all uncomfortable afterwards...and it was the same dance...

i agree with macm - the more i ask guys i know to dance, the more they wait for me to come and ask them. i didnt say the word lazy. did you say the 'l' word, macm? see, no-one said lazy... ;)
 
my point is that if you don't tell them that you are better but you are willing to dance with them, they may prefer to dance with less advanced follows just for less pressure. Men usually like to be the captain of a small boat, or a boat of whatever size that he can handle, unless you tell them, I am a tanker, but I have auto pilot so don't worry.
 
TrulyMadlyAmanda said:
help! :confused: to give some background, i've been dancing for 13 years, been regularly asked to dance by some of the best dancers in the world, and always been told 'you're so light!'.

yet suddenly, i'm plague-woman. :( it's a relatively new scene to me (8 months), but i know everyone to say hi to now. i got through the first couple of quiet months where people dont know you, to a happy point where i was nearly getting my limbs ripped off by guys asking me at the same time, sharing me etc. yet now, suddenly, i'm only getting asked to dance every 4th song or so! :(

ok, i'm not a newbie, so i know the general rules:

stand in a good spot, smile and move to the music like you're keen to dance, dont sit down, always say yes to dance invitations
smell nice, but not overpoweringly perfumed and have minty breath
dress femininely and like you know what you're doing, including dance shoes
make eye contact and smile at guys who come towards you
ask guys for dances
be light to lead and dont prioritise styling over following
have fun and show your partner a good time, smile
thank your partner for the dance
say 'sorry' when your partner makes a leading error (i'm not proud, LOL)

i may have forgotten a couple, but trust me, by now i know them all. i've sought feedback from guys who used to ask me and dont anymore, and gotten none. so, i've run through this list in my head:

because i was dancing so much with one particular 'alpha' guy, that guys think i only want to dance with him?
whether some guys dance with girls to flirt (and ultimately get laid), and theyve now know i dont do that - except for OTT flirting in the dance itself? ;
whether i was styling too much, and that was making my following slow and heavy?
maybe cuz sometimes people watch me dance and it makes some guys nervous?
i've heard guys are intimidated by my 'great dancing' (but since when did a guy ever worry about dancing or dating 'above his level'?)
cuz other teachers dont want to draw attention to me by dancing with me? i've been sweating more, recently? but have been changing clothes and drying off too.
cuz other girls are prettier?
cuz i'm 'too fat' for some guys' taste?
i have body odour or bad breath? (am fresh out of the shower, scented body lotion, clean clothes, deoderant, just enough perfume, brushed teeth, floss, mouthwash, gum)

it's making me crazy....two weeks in a row, for one song every single other female dancer was on the floor, and i was standing on my own at the edge, with spare men around. that's never happened to me, even when i was a beginner. :confused:

i've asked for feedback, and no-one will give me any....so then i'm paranoid that it's something really bad. i made a plan to lead a woman every time a guy doesnt ask me, but theyre mainly such carthorses! it's like leading through treacle....and these are the girls who are getting asked to dance instead of me. :(

when i first came, i asked guys whenever no-one asked me, but i dont want to ask now, because i know they know i'll happily dance with them any time they ask me. i want dances, but i dont want to dance with people who dont want to dance with me/wont enjoy our dance.

i could never live anywhere that doesnt have a salsa scene, but effectively that's what's happening....there are dancers, but not for me. even the dances i am getting are spoiled...i cant let go/enjoy, because i'm becoming paranoid about my dancing. which will go into a downward spiral if i cant dance. if i cant resolve this problem - i'm giving it until xmas - i will be moving countries, which i otherwise really dont want to do.

help, please!!!! any/all suggestions and/or possible explanations gratefully received.
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Have not read other responses yet but will do so in a second.

Apologies if already suggested.

Firstly, you can always pm/email me if you ever want a private chat :) You obviously give a lot to dancing (from some great detailed positive suggestions you have made to me and others on the board) so hopefully I can return the favour someday :)

Secondly, well done for acknowledging an issue. Now the next step is to forget it lol. Problem is that once you acknowledge the problem you want to feed energy to the soultions not the original problem.

Start afresh :)

So now we are starting afresh (hard to do but meditate do what you need to do so you turn up to the club without expectations) remember what it feels like.

KEY: No expectations. Take responsibility to have a great night EVEN if no one asks you. But make yourself available which you have been.

That I believe is the overall principle.

Practical suggestions
---------------------

1) Befriend a key leader to give a demo dance to everyone to show you can dance and have fun then also hopefully introduce you to more.

2) Not dancing, then try and make friends etc. Get dance requests from new contacts you have made he he plus even if no dance requests, then at least you have friends.

3) Speak to a local instructor etc. Issue is that dance requests can be from groups and if you do not have a group this can be tough. So try and become affiliated with a group (if only just for better socialising) or start your own group :)

4) Give yourself a well earnt salsa vacation/congress to get your fix and get back in the groove.

You will be great!!!

*do not be too harsh on yourself, 99% chance not about you. It may just take time.
 
kkksss said:
one interesting thing is that usually, leads would like to dance with someone who's a little less advanced than himself, and follows will always want to dance with someone who's the top dog on the turf.
Click to expand...


Good point but I am outside the usual (which most people know anyway he he).

I love to feel appreciated whether I lead or follow. So believe that if you focus energy on making the other person feel good, then you will generally always have nice dances :)
 
TrulyMadlyAmanda said:
yikes! good ideas, but i feel most men would run a mile from that one...

agreed on the men would rather be 'better', perceived position of power. i danced with a beginner the other day, and he told me i should look up and not worry about my feet. guilty as charged....i kept glancing down, because i was worrying about the whole "no dances" issue which led him to come and ask me for a pity dance. :oops: so i said, "good point, thank you" and he proceeded to barrage me with teaching points (mostly bogus, lol) the rest of the song, while i waited for him to realise i wasnt a beginner. in the end, i had to tell him that actually i'm a mean girl with a twisted sense of humour. :( and sink even further into paranoia....usually even doing basic step, beginners can tell i'm not a beginner. if i've lost my wiggle, then we're all doomed. dooooomed, i tell you! ;) but he was enjoying the dance so much while he was my 'teacher', then got all uncomfortable afterwards...and it was the same dance...

i agree with macm - the more i ask guys i know to dance, the more they wait for me to come and ask them. i didnt say the word lazy. did you say the 'l' word, macm? see, no-one said lazy... ;)
Click to expand...

im kinda confused here :
1) For a beginner to notice that u were looking down for some reason is very rare as usually its the other way round.You have performed/taught at various clubs so its rare that u would look down at ur feet and make it obvious.
2) As a performer/teacher, even a blind person should be able to tell that ur not a begginer
just by your basics.But u do mention this somewhere in the post
Are u sure that guy was a begginner?
 
Some pretty good insights here by various posters. I don't have much to add except for me personally, it depends on my mood. Sometimes I only dance with my friends, sometimes I'll ask a bunch of strangers. But I rarely dance with a stranger more than once, unless they show that they really enjoyed dancing with me. Because sometimes dancing with the same person repeatedly is looked upon as trying to score.

Also if the lady doesn't show that she enjoyed dancing with me, like didn't smile, looked bored the whole time, I won't ask her to dance again. There were a number of cases where I found out much later that the ladies I danced with actually liked dancing with me, but they just had a poker face for whatever reason.

But a for sure method is to make friends. Not hi friends. But friends you would call up to go out dancing together.

Also on a side note, I notice this when it comes to dating, so I figure it probably applies in theory to finding someone to dance with as well -- it comes in bursts. Sometimes you'll just be dry, then suddenly you get so much going on you can't even manage.

I think you're doing everything right. Like some poster said, it's not you. Keep at it I'm sure your dry spell will pass.
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but I liked antigone's response!

If you stop trying, the problem will go away eventually. If you stop worrying, the problem will go away immediately!

Have a drink and a chat. Dance if you feel like it, screw the theory and the etiquette!
 
I won’t use the tanker analogy :)

Hows about a racing car? Fun to drive once in a while, but unless you’re a professional driver, deep down you know you’re not really getting the best out of the machine.

I’ve said it elsewhere, but in my opinion the lead follow dynamic works best when the leader is better than the follower (or around the same level). I get my buzz taking ladies through stuff they don’t know, or things they didn’t even think they could do. I guess for followers those nice comfortable dances are great, but it’s the ones where you’re slightly taken out of your comfort zone that are most memorable?

I rarely ask the top followers at my venue to dance, unless it’s a fierce track that less skilled dancers would struggle with. In these situations I find the music inspires my lead and provides more opportunities to hit breaks and for the lady to style/shine. The recording makes up for the deficiencies in my repertoire.

I don’t know where this leaves you Amanda – but I’ve noticed at venues where the standard isn’t especially high, the better followers don’t get more dances than the average ladies (whereas the reverse is true for the good leaders).
 
Hi Amanda

First of all, I think you have become too paranoid and self-conscious about the situation.

I'll give you my take from a guy's perspective. I've been dancing for 18 months so it's not so long ago that I was a beginner and it's still fresh in my memory how I felt at a lower level.

The most important factor for me is body language in your facial expression. If you are smiling and look like you are enjoying the dance then it will make me feel relaxed and allow me to dance naturally and to my fullest capability. If I smile at you, and you give me a forced smile back out of politeness (i.e. I'm not enjoying this dance feeling or I don't really want to dance with you feeling or judgemental/critical feeling), then it will make me feel uncomfortable - 12 months ago it might have made me self-conscious and affected our dance; it wouldn't put me off now while we are dancing, but it may put me off asking you for a dance in the future.

IF I was at beginner level, and so focused on thinking about next move and keeping in time, then a follower who styles a lot could put me off. I sometimes practice with an advanced follower, and she told me that she doesn't style out of habit i.e. style the same way regardless of the level of person she is dancing with. What I am suggesting to you is to dumb down your styling to an appropriate level when you are dancing with less experienced dancers (i.e. beginner/improvers).

Physique, looks, clothing, hygene, age - doesn't come into it for me.

It's a shame none of the leads, that you know, have not given you any feedback of substance. You come across to me as a person with the right attitude but it's always best to ask someone for a non-biased view. You say, you are new to the scene (8 months), even if you have asked guys before, ask them again. When you first danced with the guy, how did you come across to him? If they give you some negative feedback about 1st impressions then that could be it.

In a nutshell:-

1. If you are giving me naturals smiles during our dance and look like you are enjoing the dance (doesn't matter if you are faking it well!!!)
2. Your body language in your facial expression make me feel at ease. Even if you are way above my level, I will not feel intimidated because you are making me feel at ease
3. A thanks or squeeze of the hand at the end of the dance is a confirmation that you enjoyed the dance.
4. If a screw up a move, just laugh and carry on.

If I get all 4 from you, then I will not hesitate to ask you for a dance in the future.
 
pwcs said:
Hi Amanda

First of all, I think you have become too paranoid and self-conscious about the situation.

I'll give you my take from a guy's perspective. I've been dancing for 18 months so it's not so long ago that I was a beginner and it's still fresh in my memory how I felt at a lower level.

The most important factor for me is body language in your facial expression. If you are smiling and look like you are enjoying the dance then it will make me feel relaxed and allow me to dance naturally and to my fullest capability. If I smile at you, and you give me a forced smile back out of politeness (i.e. I'm not enjoying this dance feeling or I don't really want to dance with you feeling or judgemental/critical feeling), then it will make me feel uncomfortable - 12 months ago it might have made me self-conscious and affected our dance; it wouldn't put me off now while we are dancing, but it may put me off asking you for a dance in the future.

IF I was at beginner level, and so focused on thinking about next move and keeping in time, then a follower who styles a lot could put me off. I sometimes practice with an advanced follower, and she told me that she doesn't style out of habit i.e. style the same way regardless of the level of person she is dancing with. What I am suggesting to you is to dumb down your styling to an appropriate level when you are dancing with less experienced dancers (i.e. beginner/improvers).

Physique, looks, clothing, hygene, age - doesn't come into it for me.

It's a shame none of the leads, that you know, have not given you any feedback of substance. You come across to me as a person with the right attitude but it's always best to ask someone for a non-biased view. You say, you are new to the scene (8 months), even if you have asked guys before, ask them again. When you first danced with the guy, how did you come across to him? If they give you some negative feedback about 1st impressions then that could be it.

In a nutshell:-

1. If you are giving me naturals smiles during our dance and look like you are enjoing the dance (doesn't matter if you are faking it well!!!)
2. Your body language in your facial expression make me feel at ease. Even if you are way above my level, I will not feel intimidated because you are making me feel at ease
3. A thanks or squeeze of the hand at the end of the dance is a confirmation that you enjoyed the dance.
4. If a screw up a move, just laugh and carry on.

If I get all 4 from you, then I will not hesitate to ask you for a dance in the future.
Click to expand...

haha, so it seems that if the follows be more like moms, we would feel much better. We men are so insecure, and got to see that mom's smile for us to be able to dance. It's quite an interesting irony while men are so dominating in every aspect of this society, we are so fragile on the salsa floor :-D
 
AndrewD said:
I won’t use the tanker analogy :)

Hows about a racing car? Fun to drive once in a while, but unless you’re a professional driver, deep down you know you’re not really getting the best out of the machine.

I’ve said it elsewhere, but in my opinion the lead follow dynamic works best when the leader is better than the follower (or around the same level). I get my buzz taking ladies through stuff they don’t know, or things they didn’t even think they could do. I guess for followers those nice comfortable dances are great, but it’s the ones where you’re slightly taken out of your comfort zone that are most memorable?

I rarely ask the top followers at my venue to dance, unless it’s a fierce track that less skilled dancers would struggle with. In these situations I find the music inspires my lead and provides more opportunities to hit breaks and for the lady to style/shine. The recording makes up for the deficiencies in my repertoire.

I don’t know where this leaves you Amanda – but I’ve noticed at venues where the standard isn’t especially high, the better followers don’t get more dances than the average ladies (whereas the reverse is true for the good leaders).
Click to expand...

Andrew, so it seems that you steer your partner like a car on the floor, while I like to steer them like a boat :-D I think it's harder to control a boat, because it's less responsive than a car, and you have to watch out the human wave around ;-)
 
kkksss

I have given my take from someone who have not danced for donkeys years. This insecurity, as you put it, is nothing to do with being insecure as a person in general but through the level of experience in dancing. Doesn't matter what gender you are. Quite often I'm dancing with less experienced followers who I have danced with before. They know I am a higher level than them, and you can see that they are lacking in confidence, and worried that they will screw up - this self-conscious feeling is a hindrence to their dancing. Once they are confident of their following ability the self-conscious feeling goes out of the window.
 
evilquesadilla said:
Keep at it I'm sure your dry spell will pass.
Click to expand...

mmm, maybe i just need salsa lubricant. ;) :)

thanks for all the input everybody. i'm now wondering whether the issue is the difference between my facial expressions/level of enjoyment when i dance with my favourite few leads, and everyone else. i think i'm pretty good at enjoying a dance with intermediate dancers, but i light up like a xmas tree when i get a really great dance... hmm, interesting.

sac, i dont style at all really when dancing with beginners (it usually confuses the heck out of them) - hence being mistaken for one by a guy new enough not to realise that not all women wriggle like a snake. ;)

i like smiling's idea (and a lot other people agreed) of not going in with fear/negativity - it's spoiling the dances i'm getting. going to go with the zen letting go... :cool:
 
AndrewD said:
Hows about a racing car? Fun to drive once in a while, but unless you’re a professional driver, deep down you know you’re not really getting the best out of the machine.
[...]
I rarely ask the top followers at my venue to dance, unless it’s a fierce track that less skilled dancers would struggle with. In these situations I find the music inspires my lead and provides more opportunities to hit breaks and for the lady to style/shine. The recording makes up for the deficiencies in my repertoire.
Click to expand...

Well, but how would you then learn to get the best ouf the racing car if you just rarely practice with it? Or taking it back to dancing, how do you learn to have fun with the top followers and give them a great dance independent on the size of your repertoire?

From my own experience, I've been either afraid to ask some top follower or when I had unknowingly asked one got worried about my skills and my repertoire. My turning point for this when I got to dance with a top follower who had asked me to save her a dance and I knew that chickening out wasn't really an option. And altough I managed to screw up once or twice in that dance, she continued to smile and either genuinely had fun (or faked it very good ;)).

So going back to the analogy of the racing car: While you might not get the best out of the machine, you'll still can have a lot of fun with it and gain more experience with it. And with more experience driving a racing car, you'll be able to make better usage of it until you someday get the best out of it. And getting back to dance, I don't think there's any reason for us leads to be insecure about our repertoire or our lead, if the lady is going to smile then she's either genuinely having fun (or faking it, which I don't hope. :))
 
kkksss said:
haha, so it seems that if the follows be more like moms, :-D
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If the choice is on a scale of mom <----> ***** then yes please I'll take "like moms". But I don't think that's the dichotomy.

Nothing wrong with suggesting a bit of warmth and gentleness will encourage others!

We don't all aspire to be music-video style pimps & hoes.
 
Just reading this thread and then your post in the 'becoming an instructor' thread and thought what you said may be a partial clue to the people not asking you to dance question here? Perhaps affecting the whole cycle of you not really relaxing and having fun and therefore not being the follow of choice. They will already be feeling a bit stressed at dancing with someone above their level and possible feeling judged so really need you to be super relaxed about it to help them out!

Quote: "people watch and judge your social dancing, so it can start to feel like an exam"
 
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