Why do some dance schools focus more on shines than partnerwork?

[terence]

When you see leaders do one fancy move after another with the girls with no breaks in between, it makes me realize what a terrible dancer I really am.

On the contrary. what it DOES demonstrate, is that they really do not understand the concept of partnership " dance "..

Basics are the cement that "tie" the variations together.


Its like putting too much salt on food.. youve gotta find the right amount .

As to what dancers prefer ?.. thats a broad sweep. Of course, there are those who like endless spins etc. but.. the majority of great dancers prefer interpretation thruout the whole song, which will include basic foundation work, interspersed with the variety.

One only has to look at World champions in other genres, to see how much basic material is included .

 

[DancingGuy]

I just came back from a social party today. Mind you, I have not social danced in almost 2 months ever since I joined SR. And I have to say.... I can't believe how much my dancing, leading, and confidence has improved. Here I was thinking that Santo Rico was overdoing the shines and not focusing on more moves. Boy, was I wrong. Of course, I'd be lying if I said that all my dances tonight came out perfect. Far from perfect, to be honest. But I can't believe how much better things turned out ever since the last time I went to a social. So, OPM was right. Shines are improving my dancing in ways I never imagined. It's like in "The Karate Kid." Here is this kid who is painting a fence, waxing a car and sanding a floor. He flips out because he thinks he's wasting time doing all these weird tasks. But then he realizes that it helped his karate A LOT. Now, I don't know if that really does help people with karate, but I'm just providing an example. Shines seem to help in the same way. You do them over and over ad nauseum, but they really improve your dancing in ways you couldn't imagine.

 

[sweavo]

It's like in "The Karate Kid." Here is this kid who is painting a fence, waxing a car and sanding a floor. He flips out because he thinks he's wasting time doing all these weird tasks.

This is great that you've come to this attitude. When you are the student sometimes you just gotta do what the teacher says even if you don't know why just yet. So glad to hear you are seeing the benefits!

Wax-on wax-off, DancinGuy-san!

Give it a year or two and maybe Mr Miyagi Guerrero will show you the move that can't be beat!

 

[kbitten]

I liked the analogy.

 

[Salsa Student]

It's like in "The Karate Kid." Here is this kid who is painting a fence, waxing a car and sanding a floor. He flips out because he thinks he's wasting time doing all these weird tasks. But then he realizes that it helped his karate A LOT.

This seems to be the Santo Rico Way. Hard to argue with the results though.

 

[UnlikelySalsero]

I just came back from a social party today. Mind you, I have not social danced in almost 2 months ever since I joined SR. And I have to say.... I can't believe how much my dancing, leading, and confidence has improved. Here I was thinking that Santo Rico was overdoing the shines and not focusing on more moves. Boy, was I wrong. Of course, I'd be lying if I said that all my dances tonight came out perfect. Far from perfect, to be honest. But I can't believe how much better things turned out ever since the last time I went to a social. So, OPM was right. Shines are improving my dancing in ways I never imagined. <snip> Shines seem to help in the same way. You do them over and over ad nauseum, but they really improve your dancing in ways you couldn't imagine.

Note that shines ARE helpful for improving your dancing. Or you could have taken classes in other dances. Anything that improves your body control would have been a win.

Additionally, "time" is a factor. People underestimate the time value when learning something new. Leading techniques that you practiced a couple months ago get better over time, even if you're not on the dance floor. (The mind is amazing that way...)

You may not have social danced, but you were going back to a situation where you had been in the past, and it's easier. Part of the process: Work hard a while, the results often show up weeks/months later.

Keep on dancing and learning, and it all gets better over time.

 

[EMOYENO]

Nice thread to be read again!!! I like to learn new shines everytime, the mind doesnt retain 100% of what you get taught in class.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Most ladies would rather dance a simple dance with someone on-time and with the music, rather than 50 patterns that are off the music.

The more I think about this, the more it seems more like a myth. Of course, there are exceptions, but from what i've seen, this seems to not
be the case where i'm from.

I recently attended a WCS total beginner class. It's been a while since
I took a beginner class of any kind. Afterwards, there was a social.

I took my 2 moves out to the dance floor. My result? I felt limited and
pretty useless. Although I had the timing down, my limited repertoire was
inhibiting the fun aspect of the dance. My partners were gracious and patient enough, but something tells me they were expecting more, especially the intermediate to advanced level WCS dancers.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone here, as I believe everyone should seek to improve their own dancing in order to maximize the fun aspect for
themselves and their partner.

I just think this whole "I prefer dancing with someone who dances well with limited repertoire vs. someone with many moves but is off time" argument is ultimately flawed. It's a lot more complicated than that.

It's called beginner's hell for a reason, especially where leaders are concerned.

Chris

 

[SalsaGipsy]

The more I think about this, the more it seems more like a myth. Of course, there are exceptions, but from what i've seen, this seems to not
be the case where i'm from.

I recently attended a WCS total beginner class. It's been a while since
I took a beginner class of any kind. Afterwards, there was a social.

I took my 2 moves out to the dance floor. My result? I felt limited and
pretty useless. Although I had the timing down, my limited repertoire was
inhibiting the fun aspect of the dance. My partners were gracious and patient enough, but something tells me they were expecting more, especially the intermediate to advanced level WCS dancers.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone here, as I believe everyone should seek to improve their own dancing in order to maximize the fun aspect for
themselves and their partner.

I just think this whole "I prefer dancing with someone who dances well with limited repertoire vs. someone with many moves but is off time" argument is ultimately flawed. It's a lot more complicated than that.

It's called beginner's hell for a reason, especially where leaders are concerned.

Chris

My interpretation of the saying would be like this: Followers prefer dancing with somebody who does few patterns but with feeling and musicality rather than somebody who is off-time and drags them through endless patterns.

Does that make more sense? Being off-time will invariably end up in dragging the lady around because she won't be able to follow it and will always find her unprepared - especially when the timing changes (which is what usually happens with off-timers).

And most beginners are too scared and intimidated to dance with feeling and musicality. If they let go of the idea that they are boring the lady and just laugh and enjoy the music it will be an enjoyable dance. I know, easier said than done, but I know enough people who do this.

 

[Up in the Air]

In my humble opinion, I hate shines at classes. Dread them.

Classes are about learning *and* socializing. I want to learn, practice, mingle, socialize and hang out with other people at class. And I know I'm not alone; the vast majority of men want to dance with women - Not themselves.

Unless, of course, you're one of those narcissistic male dance instructors that loves to watch himself in the mirror during shine sessions. The ones who ignore the class and just do their own thing while the rest of the class tries to keep up.

 

[EMOYENO]

In my humble opinion, I hate shines at classes. Dread them.

Classes are about learning *and* socializing. I want to learn, practice, mingle, socialize and hang out with other people at class. And I know I'm not alone; the vast majority of men want to dance with women - Not themselves.

Unless, of course, you're one of those narcissistic male dance instructors that loves to watch himself in the mirror during shine sessions. The ones who ignore the class and just do their own thing while the rest of the class tries to keep up.

LOL nicely said & funny too!!! I've been to many of those. I can extend an invitation to Marcus Nieves Studio in NJ.... hahaha.... he's very good teacher, sometimes he goes into his own thing (for like 3 seconds) & people just stop to watch. He stops smiles and says "lets talk about that" and starts to break it down. Funny as hell though, he is a good teacher. LOL

 

[Chris_Yannick]

My interpretation of the saying would be like this: Followers prefer dancing with somebody who does few patterns but with feeling and musicality rather than somebody who is off-time and drags them through endless patterns.

Does that make more sense? Being off-time will invariably end up in dragging the lady around because she won't be able to follow it and will always find her unprepared - especially when the timing changes (which is what usually happens with off-timers).

And most beginners are too scared and intimidated to dance with feeling and musicality. If they let go of the idea that they are boring the lady and just laugh and enjoy the music it will be an enjoyable dance. I know, easier said than done, but I know enough people who do this.

Of course you are absolutely right.

I can't speak as a follower, or for other followers. I just feel the vast majority of them would prefer dancing with someone with a developed
dance style. Even if that person did the same 2-3 moves over and over,
they can at least compensate for it with feeling and musicality.

But as a complete and utterly hopeless beginner, what chance do we have?

I am fortunate enough to be able to draw upon my knowledge of other dance styles to help me get through a song, but for those with no prior background in partner dancing, they are at an immediate disadvantage.

As you said, laughing and enjoying the music is probably the best approach in any situation. It will work for the majority of people. I suspect, though, there are those who dance to become technically proficient and thus will enjoy dancing mostly with others who are technically proficient.