Why Are There So Few Female Salsa Singers?

Salsa, merengue, bachata and reggaeton (even though I hate reggaeton with a passion) were always male-dominated genres and probably it's going to remain unchanged. The reason about reggaeton is that probably not many women aren't going to dare to sing reggaeton is because most reggaeton are songs that are dedicated to women. However, there are exceptions, Ivy Queen sang reggaeton. Very few women sing salsa because a tenor voice fits a salsa song more than any voice. DLG's new vocalist is a woman (Miss Yaya) and it quite fits the salsa sound because Huey Dunbar hit fifth-octave notes in most of DLG's songs and a female is always more likely to reach any fifth-octave note in chest voice than a male. Unless, they're children.
 
[QUOTE="Drjamesaq2, post: 296675, member: 287211"The reason about reggaeton is that probably not many women aren't going to dare to sing reggaeton is because most reggaeton are songs that are dedicated to women. However, there are exceptions, Ivy Queen sang reggaeton. Very few women sing salsa because a tenor voice fits a salsa song more than any voice. DLG's new vocalist is a woman (Miss Yaya) and it quite fits the salsa sound because Huey Dunbar hit fifth-octave notes in most of DLG's songs and a female is always more likely to reach any fifth-octave note in chest voice than a male. Unless, they're children.[/QUOTE]
Songs are about whatever people choose to write them about. A female regggaeton singer can sing about whatever topic she chooses. There are some female reggeaton singers in Cuba. They aren't nearly as popular as the male groups, however.
Women generally sing in the same range as the male tenors. I have no problem singing along. There are very few songs where the notes go too low for me. So I don't buy the "best range is a tenor" argument.

Cuba has - to my knowledge -more active and popular female salseros than other salsa countries. I thin it has mre to do with having good songs quite simnply. If somoene is writing good songs for a female singer it will work. If they are just doing "i'm crying because I love you" songs it isn't interetsing. Bamboleo, Azúcar Negra and later Los Van Van all have had strong and popular female leads, many of wwhom then left to do solo careers. In regular salsa it seems there was La Lupa, La India and Choco Orta and those arre really the only big female names I have heard of - well Celia Cruz as well of course. I'm sure there are others but the ahven't reached enough fame to be heard of by me.
You may well point out that you have no idea who the famous female singers are in Cuba, but I doubt most saldseros know the name of any Cuban singers - maybe they've heard of Mayitro Rivera.
 
timberamayor said:
Songs are about whatever people choose to write them about. A female regggaeton singer can sing about whatever topic she chooses. There are some female reggeaton singers in Cuba. They aren't nearly as popular as the male groups, however.
Women generally sing in the same range as the male tenors. I have no problem singing along. There are very few songs where the notes go too low for me. So I don't buy the "best range is a tenor" argument.

Cuba has - to my knowledge -more active and popular female salseros than other salsa countries. I thin it has mre to do with having good songs quite simnply. If somoene is writing good songs for a female singer it will work. If they are just doing "i'm crying because I love you" songs it isn't interetsing. Bamboleo, Azúcar Negra and later Los Van Van all have had strong and popular female leads, many of wwhom then left to do solo careers. In regular salsa it seems there was La Lupa, La India and Choco Orta and those arre really the only big female names I have heard of - well Celia Cruz as well of course. I'm sure there are others but the ahven't reached enough fame to be heard of by me.
You may well point out that you have no idea who the famous female singers are in Cuba, but I doubt most saldseros know the name of any Cuban singers - maybe they've heard of Mayitro Rivera.
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You forgot to mention another one, the Japanese salsa group Orquesta La Luz. Nora was famous for being the lead singer of that group.
 
Drjamesaq2 said:
You forgot to mention another one, the Japanese salsa group Orquesta La Luz. Nora was famous for being the lead singer of that group.
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Yep forgot her. there are other groups in Europe that have female leads, but they haven't reached a level of international fame yet as far as I know.
 
Smejmoon said:
Why do you think it's so? This actually annoys the hell out of me and it took me years to start tolerating these male vocals in salsa. Bachata has the same problem.
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Most male singers are tenors also in pop and other genres. I don't know why that is but a bass or baritone is less common, although baritones can often sing in muh of the tenor range or falsetto
 
A few nitpicks

timberamayor said:
Women generally sing in the same range as the male tenors. I have no problem singing along.
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This is an aural illusion. Most women are sopranos, which means they are also singing a full octave above a tenor male voice. You're singing the same notes (B, G, F, etc) but at fully twice the frequency as your male counterpart. So, if Maykel Blanco is hitting a D5 note (which vibrates at 587.44 Hz) unless you've got a very deep voice for a woman, you're hitting note D6, which actually vibrates at 1174.66 Hz, fully twice as fast. They sound like the same notes because the underlying waves overlap each other so neatly, like this:

twosine.gif


With that said, some woman have voices so deep that, not only are they not sopranos, mezzos, or altos, they are actually tenors. An acquaintance of mine, Evelyn, actually qualifies as a tenor.

For reference, here is a chart demonstrating typical ranges for different voice types:

vocalRangeFigure.png

timberamayor said:
Most male singers are tenors also in pop and other genres. I don't know why that is but a bass or baritone is less common, although baritones can often sing in muh of the tenor range or falsetto
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That tenors are the predominant type of male lead voice has been true since at least the dawn of written music. I've only given this cursory thought, but if I had to articulate proposed reasons:

- Voice towards to center of the range of human hearing (around middle C) tend to sound pleasant, because there is an axiom of music that says that as we move further away from the center, it becomes more difficult to distinguish certain properties of notes, namely pitch. In other words, voices sound muddier as we move further down the scale, which sounds less plesant

- As noted above, its easier for woman to sing along with tenors, since they are singing the same notes just in a different octave.

- Tenors are more likely to be gay, and everyone loves gay people.

Why do you think it's so? This actually annoys the hell out of me and it took me years to start tolerating these male vocals in salsa. Bachata has the same problem.
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- For reasons of physics, in the modern art of recording and mixing, tenor voices more neatly "sit" in the mix with the rest of the instruments. I myself am a baritone (a rather sexy one at that), and, in my own preproductions, I sing tenor (at some discomfort to myself). Those notes below 500 HZ have a very difficult shining through as they compete with the other muddy instruments in that range: conga, piano, guitar
 
BullitproofSoul said:
A few nitpicks



This is an aural illusion. Most women are sopranos, which means they are also singing a full octave above a tenor male voice. You're singing the same notes (B, G, F, etc) but at fully twice the frequency as your male counterpart. So, if Maykel Blanco is hitting a D5 note (which vibrates at 587.44 Hz) unless you've got a very deep voice for a woman, you're hitting note D6, which actually vibrates at 1174.66 Hz, fully twice as fast. They sound like the same notes because the underlying waves overlap each other so neatly, like this:

twosine.gif


With that said, some woman have voices so deep that, not only are they not sopranos, mezzos, or altos, they are actually tenors. An acquaintance of mine, Evelyn, actually qualifies as a tenor.

For reference, here is a chart demonstrating typical ranges for different voice types:

vocalRangeFigure.png



That tenors are the predominant type of male lead voice has been true since at least the dawn of written music. I've only given this cursory thought, but if I had to articulate proposed reasons:

- Voice towards to center of the range of human hearing (around middle C) tend to sound pleasant, because there is an axiom of music that says that as we move further away from the center, it becomes more difficult to distinguish certain properties of notes, namely pitch. In other words, voices sound muddier as we move further down the scale, which sounds less plesant

- As noted above, its easier for woman to sing along with tenors, since they are singing the same notes just in a different octave.

- Tenors are more likely to be gay, and everyone loves gay people.

- For reasons of physics, in the modern art of recording and mixing, tenor voices more neatly "sit" in the mix with the rest of the instruments. I myself am a baritone (a rather sexy one at that), and, in my own preproductions, I sing tenor (at some discomfort to myself). Those notes below 500 HZ have a very difficult shining through as they compete with the other muddy instruments in that range: conga, piano, guitar
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I know when I'm singing the same note or an octave higher. Sometimes I do have to take it an octave up but as your piano shows there is a fair amount of overlap even between soprano and tenor, unless the men are singing in the lower half of their range.
Just grabbing a quick example here - no problem singing the same octave as Amaray. Actually to take it up an octave would be a bit hard. I used to be a soprano but years of not singing have reduced the upper reach of my range.
"Tenors are more likely to be gay"? Have not heard that before.
 
timberamayor said:
Could be, I've wondered about that myself. Or maybe more men are just tenors ?
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Nowadays, pop music is tenor-dominated. Before like five to six decades ago, it was baritone-dominated. Nat King Cole was a baritone. Frank Sinatra was a baritone. Even Bing Crosby was a baritone.

However, in tropical music there are some people who are baritones. Eddy Herrera (merengue) is a baritone. Ruben Blades might be a baritone. There's this urban merenguero that I hate with a passion but I'm bringing it up anyway, Omega El Fuerte might be considered bass because he sings one octave lower than his back-up singers, however in some songs while he's making a duet with a merenguero, he sings in the tenor range. And one octave below tenor is bass. I consider him a bass-baritone.
 
Third: Geography.
In Cuba there have been plenty of women singers in salsa bands.
In Cali Colombia there are several all female salsa orchestras.
Many (non-famous) local salsa bands have female singers.

Final: Yes, if one is only looking at the small snippet of time and geography, i.e. NY/PR 1960-1970s, it looks like there are no female singers.
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Not only is there a slew of female vocalists in PR/NY before and after 1960-1970, but there were more before 1960-1970 then during and after. What are you using to base this notion that only females with a specific pitch would have fit in?

Chris already touched on a select few vocalists that he accompanies based in NYC today. There are many, many more. There's also a bunch of female musicians who play percussion, wind instruments, brass, bass, piano.

You're only aware of female Jazz involvement because that genre of music has an established infrastructure and a pro-active industry template. One that provides platforms for these women. The Salsa scene in the USA does not. And that says more about talent bookers and club owners than it does about whether the men within the music are machista or not. As little as Jazz sells overall, it sells buckets more than Salsa does. And therefore, allows for creativity and opportunities to record because there is specific media that devotes itself to the promotion and education of Jazz. Salsa does not have a "Downbeat Magazine." Nor does it have a 24 hour radio stations the way Jazz does. Salsa is limited to specialty programs that run from 2-4 hours at best one day out of the week.

The issue is a lack of exposure on the part of the consumers of "Salsa." There's plenty of women engaged in this music. Especially in those regions that you say there aren't any. And they're not just vocalists either.
 
bailar y tocar said:
The lyrics of the old Cuban songs are not like that at all. The songs of the Machito, Tito Puente, Tito Rodriguez era are not like that either. The aggressive lyrics are a more recent thing and as such they are much more prevalent in hip-hop, rap and reggaeton.

Therefore, I don't think it has anything to do with why there were not more female 'salsa', 'mambo' 'latin' musicians in history.

I think the musicians back in the day were sexist , therefore little to no recordings beyond Celia Cruz and La Lupe (see Jazz musicians example).

Today, live music has experienced such a devastating decline that there just aren't any opportunities for many (men or women) to make an impact in salsa. Most of the music out there to day are recordings from a bygone era where the musicians were sexist.
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I totally disagree.

The lyrics of old Cuban songs are very much like that. Doble Sentido. The lyrics today may be more direct as far as eliminating any innuendo or leaving no doubt as to what it might mean but how can you say there wasn't anything similar in the past when you have Graciela having what comes off as an orgasm in the song SI, SI , NO, NO?

All the bands, singers, etc. expressed music that was provocative and had sexual connotations. They invented it. In Cuba, P.R., D.R., etc. Before the 1970s, 80s, 90s, etc.

Off the top of my head

Rita Montaner
Xiomara Alfaro
Julita Ross
Celeste Mendoza
Lucy Fabery
Rosita Rios
Mechita (Jose Curbelo, Pupi Campo)
Paulina Alvarez
Myrta Silva
Marta [singer with Tito Rodriguez]
Maria Alicea [The leader and founder of La Playa Sextet]
Rachelle Mejia (Joe Loco, Jose Curbelo)
Marita (early female band leader)
Miki Vimari [Ricardo Ray orchestra]
Marta Gomez
Guille Averhoff (Tito Puente)
Cuarteto D'Aida
Carmen Delia Dipini
Sophy (Tito Puente)
Yolanda Rivera (Sonora Poncena)
Diosa Costello (Pedro Flores, Jose Morand, Noro Morales)
Jackie Danois
Salsa Fever (1970s all-female orchestra)
Nita Del Campo (Noro Morales)
Lina Romay
Isolina Carrillo (pianist)
Ana Carrero (trap drummer w. Noro Morales)
Hilda Salazar (early female band leader)
Las Hermanas Marquez
Orquesta Anacaona
Las Hermana Aguilas
Linda Leiva
Canelita Medina
Trina Medina
Vickie (Orq. Harlow)
Las mulatas del Sabor (all-female band from the '60s)
Graciela (Machito, Mario Bauza)
Sonia Lopez (Conga player and band leader)
Nancy O'Neill
Andrea Brachfeld (flute player)
Adela Dalto (Mario Bauza)
Camille Thurman
Maria Calderon-Cuba (Joe Cuba group)
Nikki Denner (piano)
La India De Oriente (SAR All-Stars)
Las Hermanas Cabezudos
Maria Teresa Vera
Gloria Mirabal
Ada Chabrier
Nadine Torres (bassist)
Jennifer Vincent (bass)
Michele Rosewoman (Los Kimy)
Karen Joseph (flute)
Aurora Flores (bandleader, vocalist)
Jenny Colon
Debbie Resto
Claudette Sierra
Carmen Jimenez
Jessica Rodriguez (timbalera)
Johanna Castaneda (Jimmy Bosch)
Carmen Laboy (alto; tenor sax)
Nayobe
Ariacne Trujillo (Pedrito Martinez Group)
Mayra Casales (percussion)
Annette Aguilar (percussion)
Sofia Tosello
Reut Regev (Trombone)
Christelle Durandy (percussion)
Robyn Lobe (percussion)
Yanet Montero (percussion)
Karina Colis (trap drums)
Janine Puente
Wendy Garcia (percussion)
Melena (percussion)

There's a whole slew more but these are women that have made up the scene from 1919 to the present day in NYC, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Colombia and California.
 
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I'm a bass-baritone and my highest note in chest voice is Eb4. In this page, two female salsa singers that has no mention in this page is Mimi Ibarra and Brenda K. Starr. Plus, she isn't well known as a salsera because she is probably most famous for her freestyle hits. She started in the late 80s with freestyle and in the mid 90s, she entered the salsa scene with, "Herida". Her most famous salsa songs are, "Herida" and her version of, "Por ese hombre" by Pimpinela and Dyango. She sung it with Tito Nieves and Victor Manuelle. She's not well known as a salsa singer.

Same as what happened with La India. I mean, I'm not a fan of freestyle, never was though. La India started with freestyle and she started with a freestyle group TKA, and eventually she became a salsera. People will obviously remember her more as a salsa singer than somebody who sings freestyle, I know I will. Not that many people know that she sang freestyle before she started singing salsa, though.
 
Richie Blondet said:
I totally disagree.

The lyrics of old Cuban songs are very much like that. Doble Sentido. The lyrics today may be more direct as far as eliminating any innuendo or leaving no doubt as to what it might mean but how can you say there wasn't anything similar in the past when you have Graciela having what comes off as an orgasm in the song SI, SI , NO, NO?

All the bands, singers, etc. expressed music that was provocative and had sexual connotations. They invented it. In Cuba, P.R., D.R., etc. Before the 1970s, 80s, 90s, etc.

Off the top of my head

Rita Montaner
Xiomara Alfaro
Julita Ross
Celeste Mendoza
Lucy Fabery
Rosita Rios
Mechita (Jose Curbelo, Pupi Campo)
Paulina Alvarez
Myrta Silva
Marta [singer with Tito Rodriguez]
Maria Alicea [The leader and founder of La Playa Sextet]
Rachelle Mejia (Joe Loco, Jose Curbelo)
Marita (early female band leader)
Miki Vimari [Ricardo Ray orchestra]
Marta Gomez
Guille Averhoff (Tito Puente)
Cuarteto D'Aida
Carmen Delia Dipini
Sophy (Tito Puente)
Yolanda Rivera (Sonora Poncena)
Diosa Costello (Pedro Flores, Jose Morand, Noro Morales)
Jackie Danois
Salsa Fever (1970s all-female orchestra)
Nita Del Campo (Noro Morales)
Lina Romay
Isolina Carrillo (pianist)
Ana Carrero (trap drummer w. Noro Morales)
Hilda Salazar (early female band leader)
Las Hermanas Marquez
Orquesta Anacaona
Las Hermana Aguilas
Linda Leiva
Canelita Medina
Trina Medina
Vickie (Orq. Harlow)
Las mulatas del Sabor (all-female band from the '60s)
Graciela (Machito, Mario Bauza)
Sonia Lopez (Conga player and band leader)
Nancy O'Neill
Andrea Brachfeld (flute player)
Adela Dalto (Mario Bauza)
Camille Thurman
Maria Calderon-Cuba (Joe Cuba group)
Nikki Denner (piano)
La India De Oriente (SAR All-Stars)
Las Hermanas Cabezudos
Maria Teresa Vera
Gloria Mirabal
Ada Chabrier
Nadine Torres (bassist)
Jennifer Vincent (bass)
Michele Rosewoman (Los Kimy)
Karen Joseph (flute)
Aurora Flores (bandleader, vocalist)
Jenny Colon
Debbie Resto
Claudette Sierra
Carmen Jimenez
Jessica Rodriguez (timbalera)
Johanna Castaneda (Jimmy Bosch)
Carmen Laboy (alto; tenor sax)
Nayobe
Ariacne Trujillo (Pedrito Martinez Group)
Mayra Casales (percussion)
Annette Aguilar (percussion)
Sofia Tosello
Reut Regev (Trombone)
Christelle Durandy (percussion)
Robyn Lobe (percussion)
Yanet Montero (percussion)
Karina Colis (trap drums)
Janine Puente
Wendy Garcia (percussion)
Melena (percussion)

There's a whole slew more but these are women that have made up the scene from 1919 to the present day in NYC, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Colombia and California.
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You mean Latin Fever; found some tracks from their Fania-released album on Youtube, including these ones
Somebody wrote an online-review suggesting once more that women are unfit for salsa(-singing) and branding the Larry Harlow-produced cd a mistake.
Haven't seen/heard any live-footage yet, but maybe this is what Mujer Latina could sound like if the band would reunite tomorrow.
 
Hi! I Just publish a new book (in Spanish) with 77 Woman singers, composers, pianists, conga players.... you can find it in Amazon
 

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