Why Are There So Few Female Salsa Singers?

groovetpt said:
A few gigs with the wonderful ladies of Salsa I work with...

Cita Rodriguez

Nayibe La Gitana

Yolanda Rivera
Click to expand...
WOW!!! Lucky you! It must be a real rush playing with such talent! Since you are a professional musician I would love to hear your opinion on why there are not many women singers in salsa.
 
BullitproofSoul said:
One School of Thought - The genre and its listeners are in themselves sexist and don't take female musicianship seriously.

Another School of Thought - There aren't very many talented female Salsa singers. If there were more good singers, they'd emerge and we'd hear them more.

Yet Another School of Thought - The sonero being a man is part of the formula of Salsa, like any other part of the formula, such as playing in clave.
Click to expand...
And what about the eternal Celia Cruz-comparisons ? Male singers are judged by (i.e praised for) their improvising-skills, any fault is forgiven; female singers are built up as the next Celia and easilly knocked down once they fail to live up to expectations. One notable exception being Curacao-born Yumarya Grijt, a widely sought-after singer in the Dutch salsa-scene where probably one out of three bands bands are fronted by single or multiple female vocals; I'll list a few names next time.
 
This is in response to several early posts at the beginning of this thread:

Just because there are women singing in salsa does not mean there is equality, even if there are 3-5 famous names out of the tens or hundred male classics. Just because blacks have separate but "equal", a greater improvement to their past lives, does not mean that was equal. Just because gay marriages are starting to be legalized, does not mean gays have equal rights. Just because women are starting to earn higher wages does not mean it is equal. Just because some men can parent their child after a divorce, does not mean society looks at it favorably. Simply saying "there are a few successful female singers!" does not necessarily mean equality for both genders.

I also think that sexism aside, there are other contributing factors to why there are less prominent women singers than men. For instance, I believe that because most leads are male, they prefer male speakers. Psychologically, you tend to have a more positive outlook on things that have similar attributes to yourself; ie, I like oval shaped, long faces because I have a similar facial structure. I am able to resonate better with male voices because I can attribute/imagine it to myself easier than if it was a female voice, despite not knowing spanish/the lyrics.
On a side note - this is why it's so important movies should incorporate female leads or casts that have significant and empowering roles. Not every time, but at least more than nothing, which was what the movies were like in the past.

To note, some of you may say that "I can recognize myself with the opposing sex singers", "I am dating someone who looks the opposite of me", and et cetera. Yes, while that may be true, it may not be to the same degree (in terms of recognition), and/or yes, but I am statistically basing this off of the general population and not one sole data point aka you (in terms of everything).
 
Here is another angle to the question in the OP:
  • The vast majority of musicians do not make enough money with music to pay their bills let alone build a career.
  • A typical musician juggles a day job, playing music and family responsibilities.
  • Many male musicians I know are single or they have a gf (or several) but most do not have to support a family.
  • The female musicians I know are either young and single or older and married. The married ones have husbands who seem to have good incomes and steady jobs.
There seems to be a disparity on who can focus on their music and not get sidetracked as much by everyday life events.
 
bailar y tocar said:
Here is another angle to the question in the OP:
  • The vast majority of musicians do not make enough money with music to pay their bills let alone build a career.
  • A typical musician juggles a day job, playing music and family responsibilities.
  • Many male musicians I know are single or they have a gf (or several) but most do not have to support a family.
  • The female musicians I know are either young and single or older and married. The married ones have husbands who seem to have good incomes and steady jobs.
There seems to be a disparity on who can focus on their music and not get sidetracked as much by everyday life events.
Click to expand...
Interesting point.
 
Hawaiianham said:
I also think that sexism aside, there are other contributing factors to why there are less prominent women singers than men. For instance, I believe that because most leads are male, they prefer male speakers. Psychologically, you tend to have a more positive outlook on things that have similar attributes to yourself; ie, I like oval shaped, long faces because I have a similar facial structure. I am able to resonate better with male voices because I can attribute/imagine it to myself easier than if it was a female voice, despite not knowing spanish/the lyrics.
On a side note - this is why it's so important movies should incorporate female leads or casts that have significant and empowering roles. Not every time, but at least more than nothing, which was what the movies were like in the past.

To note, some of you may say that "I can recognize myself with the opposing sex singers", "I am dating someone who looks the opposite of me", and et cetera. Yes, while that may be true, it may not be to the same degree (in terms of recognition), and/or yes, but I am statistically basing this off of the general population and not one sole data point aka you (in terms of everything).
Click to expand...
Where are you finding these statistics? You imply that you have statistics based on a wide selection of general population.

My experience throughout life using myself and the people I know as "data points" does not support your findings. We must be anomalies. :)

As to female leads...
Laritza Bacallao is popular in Cuba right now with a sort of merengue-ish,tropical, Caribbean music style. But other than that not many women in the dance music genre at all. They tend to go into other music styles. They all want to be Whitney Houston, Beyonce etc. When Haila, Tanja and Vania started solo careers they switch to doing a lot of ballads and pop or jazz and much less salsa/timba.

Azúcar Negra was one a few Cuban bands with female leads that was seriously popular with the fans, Bamboleo is the other. There are some "all girl bands" in Cuba that seem gimmicky to me, and get some airplay but are not even close to being first-line bands. Yeni in Los Van Van is a success case, whereas Lily who was temporarily in Pupy y Los Que Son Son didn't work out and Pupy went back to an all male format. Most other women in Cuban salsa are coristas.

Interestingly, Limonta recently changed the format of Azúcar Negra to all men. When I asked him about it in an interview he said that he should have done it long ago because the women come to the shows to see the male singers. Men come to the shows to look for women. So if you have a greater number of women in your audience you have more men as well. So as we see here, the women are attracted to the male singers and the men are looking to pick up women.

When Haila and Tanja were in AN they were very powerful leads and the band was very popular, but after they left, AN started dropping in popularity. Salsa/timba is an aggressive music and requires a singer who can present that image on stage. Interestingly however, when Ailyn left AN for Bamboleo her popularity increased (sadly, her popularity also increased after her breast implants). Bamboleo is still doing well with the 2 female leads and the male leads - a nice mix with hot chicks for the guys to look at, hot guys for the women to look at and strong lyrics for both the men and the women to sing.
 
Salsa in the Netherlands is underground rather than mainstream (luckily); most of the bands I'm into consist of (enthusiastic) armateurs. Among the few professionals our one and only orquesta femenina Leticia y su Rumbadama, formed in 1996 by percussionist Titia Bal after she left the likeminded and underrated Perfume de Salsa. They perform in line-ups varying from 4teto to 8teto featuring the Cuban voice of Delia Gonzalez who also sings two Dutch-language songs. Her stand-ins are/have been compatriots Asdrid 'La Kometa' Diaz and Lisi Torres, and Maaike van Zetten (formerly of Dutch Salsa Award-winners Axioma) who's also a DJ and a great (lost) conga-player. The earlier-mentioned Yumarya was reported to have joined them at one of their gigs.
 
timberamayor said:
As to female leads...
Laritza Bacallao is popular in Cuba right now with a sort of merengue-ish,tropical, Caribbean music style. But other than that not many women in the dance music genre at all. They tend to go into other music styles. They all want to be Whitney Houston, Beyonce etc. When Haila, Tanja and Vania started solo careers they switch to doing a lot of ballads and pop or jazz and much less salsa/timba.

Azúcar Negra was one a few Cuban bands with female leads that was seriously popular with the fans, Bamboleo is the other. There are some "all girl bands" in Cuba that seem gimmicky to me, and get some airplay but are not even close to being first-line bands. Yeni in Los Van Van is a success case, whereas Lily who was temporarily in Pupy y Los Que Son Son didn't work out and Pupy went back to an all male format. Most other women in Cuban salsa are coristas.

Interestingly, Limonta recently changed the format of Azúcar Negra to all men. When I asked him about it in an interview he said that he should have done it long ago because the women come to the shows to see the male singers. Men come to the shows to look for women. So if you have a greater number of women in your audience you have more men as well. So as we see here, the women are attracted to the male singers and the men are looking to pick up women.

When Haila and Tanja were in AN they were very powerful leads and the band was very popular, but after they left, AN started dropping in popularity. Salsa/timba is an aggressive music and requires a singer who can present that image on stage. Interestingly however, when Ailyn left AN for Bamboleo her popularity increased (sadly, her popularity also increased after her breast implants). Bamboleo is still doing well with the 2 female leads and the male leads - a nice mix with hot chicks for the guys to look at, hot guys for the women to look at and strong lyrics for both the men and the women to sing.
Click to expand...

I knew Haila, I even thought that AN was her solo-project, but the other names are new to me. Accidentally stumbled upon Laritza, saw this live-footage and she seems like a Cuban Shakira/Beyonce/Rhiannon. Gimmicky all-girl bands ? I think I know what you mean. They should be formed at their own initiative and have the biggest chance to succeed when all members are on the same page.
 
jr1308 said:
I knew Haila, I even thought that AN was her solo-project, but the other names are new to me. Accidentally stumbled upon Laritza, saw this live-footage and she seems like a Cuban Shakira/Beyonce/Rhiannon. Gimmicky all-girl bands ? I think I know what you mean. They should be formed at their own initiative and have the biggest chance to succeed when all members are on the same page.
Click to expand...
Haila got her start in Bamboleo together with Vania. That was when they had the signature shaved heads. Osvaldo Chacón was also in Bamboleo in those days. Eventually Leonel Limonta - who was the manager of Bamboleo and also a songwriter - and Lazarito Valdés had a less-than-friendly parting of the ways and Limonta took most of the band with him to form Azúcar Negra.
Vania stayed with Bamboleo and Yordamis Megret joined. Yordamis later went to Miami and Vania started a solo career.

Meanwhile in AN, there was Haila and Monica Mesa, but Monica went to NG La Banda and Tanja Pantoja joined. When Haila went solo they had Tanja and a few other not so famous females singers who I will not mention here. Then Tanja switched to Bamboleo and AN had Biunaikis Marquetti and Ailyn Dalleras (ex-percussionist in D'Talle a gimmiky girl group that all defected to Canada except Aylin who was only 16 and didn't get to go on the tour) She was 17 when she joined AN. Soooo...Biunaikis went to Romania and then Aylin was the main female voice of AN. But When Tanja went solo Lazarito got Aylin to join Bamboleo.. He also now has a second strong female lead now in Ianna Machado. This is the strongest 2 female leads since Haila and Vania IMO.

Limonta replaces Aylin with Ingrid Leyva, but she too went to the US and that's when Limonta decided to go all male.

Video history
Con un canto en el pecho - Haila with Bamboleo (song by Limonta) with Osvaldo and Vania
Sorry about the quality from 1:45 - 2:45 but it's from an old VHS recording of Cuban TV. It gets better

Bamboleo with Vania and Yordamis

AN with Haila - Andar Andando

ANs version of Con Un Canto En El Pecho this time with Ailyn on lead - a softer arrangment than Bamboleo's

AN with Ingrid - Perrita fina

AN of today - all guys with crazy hair...but they are very nice people :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bF-Gmo8ucQ

Bamboleo with Tanja - la que manda a big hit in Cuba a few years back
For some reason hard to find anything of Tanja when she was with AN. There are videos of her guesting with them since she went solo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ZrwNhm8-Y

Bamboleo with Ailyn - La historia de mi prima
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUVnufLhrGo

Bamboleo of today with Ailyn and Ianna. I REALLY like Ianna. A very strong singer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGhJRutsY08

And if you don't know Susel with El Charangón 2 songs from the new CD "La Aplanadora de Cuba"
Esa soy yo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ZrwNhm8-Y

No debo explicarte nada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWI88g556kI
 
Last edited:
timberamayor said:
Where are you finding these statistics? You imply that you have statistics based on a wide selection of general population.

My experience throughout life using myself and the people I know as "data points" does not support your findings. We must be anomalies. :)
Click to expand...
I agree with this statement: you can not justify somethingf applicable for a whole population by looking at your friends, your friends are self-selected. Recently there was some news that your friends are even genetically similar.

Did someone actually have any hard data that there are fewer female singers in salsa? Because in general music world I think it's quite 50/60 (as we say in Finland). People often ask me if I prefer female or male singers, and my response is always: I haven't thought about it.

Albita Rodriguez is a good female singer.
 
Ron Obvious said:
I agree with this statement: you can not justify somethingf applicable for a whole population by looking at your friends, your friends are self-selected. Recently there was some news that your friends are even genetically similar.
Click to expand...
Yeah I saw that. Pretty interesting.

Even if there i some large statistical study put on by some university of whether salsa dancing leads prefer male or female singers, that also makes the assumption that it is the lead who determines what songs the DJ plays. That if leads don't like songs they don't get played because the leads won't ask anyone to dance and the dancefloor stays empty.
 
Wait, are you saying we need a university study, or something similar, saying that the majority of lead singers of published Salsa music are men?

C'mon. Let not be academic to the point of being stupid about it. Its pretty self-evident.
 
timberamayor said:
Even if there i some large statistical study put on by some university of whether salsa dancing leads prefer male or female singers, that also makes the assumption that it is the lead who determines what songs the DJ plays. That if leads don't like songs they don't get played because the leads won't ask anyone to dance and the dancefloor stays empty.
Click to expand...
That's simply not the case. I can tell you that for a successful salsa dance, you need both a lead and a follow.

As a matter of fact, since more women can lead than males can follow, the need for a male in a salsa scene is probably a bit under 50 %.
 
BullitproofSoul said:
Wait, are you saying we need a university study, or something similar, saying that the majority of lead singers of published Salsa music are men?

C'mon. Let not be academic to the point of being stupid about it. Its pretty self-evident.
Click to expand...
Well again, haven't thought about it. But how else are we going to prove that hypothesis without an empirical study?
 
I haven't given this a lot of thoughts and certainly haven't read any studies, but it seems to me that the male versus female ratio of lead singers is salsa songs is about what it is for nearly every other genre of music that I hear. I don't believe that there is anything different in this regard with salsa.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top