timberamayor
Son Montuno
There is also Caribe GIrls, but I am not trying to make an exhaustive list. The thing is that IMO most of these all girl groups never reach and great levels of fame. They are just gimmicky IMO.
Why Are There So Few Female Salsa Singers?
- Thread starter BullitproofSoul
- Start date
As a listener I've found that vocal range in salsa is so small, that without looking up, i can't tell the gender of singer. Male and female sound the same, while in other cultures there is about octave difference in pitch. After years i recognise few, but seriously -- not many are interesting.
La Lupe is special.
La Lupe is special.
calichris10
Son Montuno
calichris10
Son Montuno
yeah totally, I didn't understand how someone would think of this song as sexist or demeaning.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
It is an example of the third "category" mentioned in the article I quoted above. (Which I thought was pretty clear when I re-quoted the article, apparently not...)
calichris10
Son Montuno
No, I just happen to disagree with you. And I also speak fluent spanish, my dad is from Mexico. Maybe you just don't understand the culture. But no problem, I agree to disagree...
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
You disagree that Latin cultures tend to be machista?
And I was already aware that you spoke Spanish, I am a little more perceptive than you seem to give me credit for...
I also happen to have many, many Latino friends, from many different parts of the Caribbean and South America, and have spent considerable time in Latin American countries, so yes, I do understand "the culture", and happen to love it very much. (Though I admit I've never felt the same strong connection and affinity with Mexicans that I do with Latinos from the Caribbean and South America, for some reason...
)(Just to give you an idea--even though I am not Latina, I grew up loving and listening to Latin music, I have loved it ever since I can remember, even though I am from Eastern Europe i.e. no connection between my culture and Latin America. I've always felt a strong affinity with Latin culture, so I naturally gravitated towards it once I moved to NY, and salsa dancing was a natural extension of my love of the music.)
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calichris10
Son Montuno
Sure there is machismo. But its not always negative. I am a strong woman and I like my men to be macho. Hispanic men have many positive qualities. As long as there is respect, there is nothing wrong with a man being very masculine and a woman being very feminine. I want my man to feel like he is the king of the household, even if I am the one rulingYou disagree that Latin cultures tend to be machista?
And I was already aware that you spoke Spanish, I am a little more perceptive than you seem to give me credit for...
I also happen to have many, many Latino friends, from many different parts of the Caribbean and South America, and have spent considerable time in Latin American countries, so yes, I do understand "the culture", and happen to love it very much. (Though I admit I've never felt the same strong connection and affinity with Mexicans that I do with Latinos from the Caribbean and South America, for some reason...
(Just to give you an idea--even though I am not Latina, I grew up loving and listening to Latin music, I have loved it ever since I can remember, even though I am from Eastern Europe i.e. no connection between my culture and Latin America. I've always felt a strong affinity with Latin culture, so I naturally gravitated towards it once I moved to NY, and salsa dancing was a natural extension of my love of the music.)
I think feminism has been taken a bit too far. Its natural when someone has been wronged to write passionately. And why is it demeaning for a man to recognize a woman's beauty and sexuality? I don't want a man to think thats all I am good for but I certainly appreciate and like it when a man tells me I am pretty or sexy...whats the problem? It seems like men can't be MEN. For example in another thread, men were posting that they just go to dance...BS...What man wouldn't like to dance & hold a pretty girl close?! It is really unique that way...sometimes totally strangers who in normal life would not look at each other, dancing close and sensual...But why not admit it? Because they are afraid of backlash. God forbid a man says one reason he likes dancing salsa because of sexy women. This is not a sport...so many people are so clinical about salsa.
No offense but Imo no matter what people would like to believe if you are not hispanic or did not grow up in a hispanic household you cannot truly understand the culture. Sure you can learn the language, learn to dance, learn about the culture..but the key word is learn...There are things that are deeper which I don't believe are learnable. por example you said you were from Eastern Europe, I could learn your language, your customs, your music and dance but I would never presume to truly understand your culture. Unless you live day in day out in a certain culture how could you possibly understand all the nuances of that culture.
As to female salsa singers, personally I am not a huge fan...there are exceptions- Yadira Ferrer from Bloque 53 is awesome. Omara Portuondo
calichris10
Son Montuno
. (Though I admit I've never felt the same strong connection and affinity with Mexicans that I do with Latinos from the Caribbean and South America, for some reason...
BTW "Mexican" is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality.
MAMBO_CEC
Son Montuno
Actually it's not demeaning, and there are ways to do it without making the woman feel uncomfortable and that you're some kind of leech or perv. Actually I am one of those that did it only for the dance, but as with eveything in life it doesn't always work out that way. I am sure most of the guys in my scene dance with and want to dance with the hotties with regard to skill level. Most of the single guys that is and that's what the vast majority of them are. For the married guys like myself it's all about the dance. So far there has been no "backlash"!!!
calichris10
Son Montuno
I was responding to another posters opinion about lyrics in salsa being demeaning and sexist(I don't see it).
And sometimes I think men are afraid to be honest and say certain things because they don't want a backlash from others! I just think men should feel comfortable being men without worry about catching flack. Everyone is so worried about being politically correct I think sometimes we forget to be real.
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
Good point. That applies to Orq Guyacan and Grupo Niche equally and it seems to be working. Their concerts are typically more women than men in the audience.
Could it be that men are too cheap to buy concert tickets ?
Could it be that men just want to dance to whatever music happens to be playing, live or not ?
A counterpoint: I did see a free concert with an all female local band named Almendra in Cali Colombia. They played well and the ladies were very cute. I was happily distracted in my dancing.
Sabrosura
Son Montuno
Who said they didn't? Hispanic men are great.
And why should these many positive qualities be necessarily seen as intertwined with viewing women as objects? (which is what sexism essentially is) Not all men who have these positive qualities (Hispanic or not) are sexist.
Who said it was? No offense but you really seem to love impulsively throwing random things around that no one ever said and assuming things about people based on whatever preconceptions you have. (FYI, that's not what a forum discussion is for, you have to actually read and try to understand what people are saying as opposed to randomly throwing stuff around and making random assumptions about other people. If you don't want to do that, then find another way to express yourself, no point in wasting your time (and others') here.)
So women who are not attractive are doomed to never hope any man will really, truly enjoy dancing salsa with them? What about unattractive men?
In other words, why bother with intercultural exchanges since it's all pointless because no one will ever truly understand another culture if they didn't grow up in it?
Once again, way to assume that everyone is as limited in their ability to understand and be perceptive to another culture as your friends or whoever it is that you have in mind when you say this.For one thing, coming from another culture can actually allow someone (assuming they have a certain degree of perceptiveness and cultural sensitivity) to actually understand more about a culture than someone who grew up in that culture, simply because they have multiple frames of reference. Have you never witnessed a discussion between people from different cultures in which someone makes an observation about someone else's culture and that person says "Wow, I never looked at it like that since to me that seems "normal", but now that you point this out I can see it is true". I've seen these kind of discussions happen a lot--of course, they generally only happen when people have a certain degree of open-mindedness, both with regard to other cultures and their own.
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calichris10
Son Montuno
Not sure why you are so defensive...I just disagree with you that salsa lyrics are sexist and demeaning, maybe I interpret the meaning different than you. Its similar to poetry, people interpret differently.Who said they didn't? Hispanic men are great.
And why should these many positive qualities be necessarily seen as intertwined with viewing women as objects? (which is what sexism essentially is) Not all men who have these positive qualities (Hispanic or not) are sexist.
Who said it was? No offense but you really seem to love impulsively throwing random things around that no one ever said and assuming things about people based on whatever preconceptions you have. (FYI, that's not what a forum discussion is for, you have to actually read and try to understand what people are saying as opposed to randomly throwing stuff around and making random assumptions about other people. If you don't want to do that, then find another way to express yourself, no point in wasting your time (and others') here.)
So women who are not attractive are doomed to never hope any man will really, truly enjoy dancing salsa with them? What about unattractive men?
In other words, why bother with intercultural exchanges since it's all pointless because no one will ever truly understand another culture if they didn't grow up in it?
For one thing, coming from another culture can actually allow someone (assuming they have a certain degree of perceptiveness and cultural sensitivity) to actually understand more about a culture than someone who grew up in that culture, simply because they have multiple frames of reference. Have you never witnessed a discussion between people from different cultures in which someone makes an observation about someone else's culture and that person says "Wow, I never looked at it like that since to me that seems "normal", but now that you point this out I can see it is true". I've seen these kind of discussions happen a lot--of course, they generally only happen when people have a certain degree of open-mindedness, both with regard to other cultures and their own.
And you are the one who used the word "machista" which has a definite negative connotation for most people. So that is why I wrote that hispanic men have positive qualities also. You seem to be the one taking things out of context. I am entitled to my opinion just like everyone else. I thought that was the point of discussion. I don't have to agree with you. And fyi I do read the posts thoroughly. You have a way of being very condescending, and its not necessary. I was simply expressing my opinion, which YOU don't have to agree with. I actually find the lyrics you are talking about quite sexy and passionate...to each his /her own...I personally find it very interesting to read other people's points of view even if I don't agree.
"impulsively throwing random things around that no one said'? I didn't "throw" anything around, I was directly responding to what you wrote in an earlier post about the lyrics. You are the one who used the words sexist, demeaning...I just disagree with you. Not that big of a deal.
I will give another example about the cultural topic. I have a friend who moved to Japan 20 years ago, speaks the language perfectly, is married to a Japanese woman, lives with her mother and brother and still he says he lacks certain nuances of the culture. I am not saying that it is a bad or negative thing, just an observation. Again you don't have to agree.
I wrote 'pretty girls" because beauty is in the eye of the beholder so not sure about your point there. All women have different qualities that make them beautiful and no woman can resist a man who can mambo so "unattractive" men need not worry. We obviously have very different points of view and thats great...its part of whats so great about being human...if we all agreed with each other how boring the world would be?!
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
That article really does not examine salsa lyrics properly (e.g. it quotes Lamento Boliviano). It is a good starting point, however I'm sure more must have been written on the topic, and if we want to categorise and discuss salsa lyrics we need to refer to the lyrics. My Spanish is minimal, but even I know mambo/salsa songs that don't fit the 3 categorisations in the above blog. (For a start, a lot of salsa songs are about topics other than love/sex.)
Then for those lyrics that could be interpreted as insulting towards women, we need to see if everyone would interpret them that way, and if there is a difference between how men and women respond to such lyrics. Are the songs popular despite the lyrics? Or do a lot of women actually like lyrics that some people find offensive?
When I have time I will see what else has been written on the topic (I recall reading something years ago about the lyrics of Rebelión).
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Your last point - that male musicians exclude females - may well be correct. However there is still a substantial aural difference between a male and female voice, even when comparing a man and woman with similar registers. So I still say aesthetics is relevant to a certain extent, just like with violins (which can pretty much do just as well as saxes, but are far less common than saxes in salsa).
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I agree; I enjoy any good salsa or mambo band that features a female vocalist. I also like bands with female musicians (disregarding any eye candy effect). Last time I saw the UK's top covers band Salseology they had a conguera and trombonista, as well as female singers; even ignoring the fact that they're honeys, it provides a different, and pleasant, dynamic.
Yep.. witness Conjunto Sabrosuras new release..
calichris10
Son Montuno
Has anyone had the pleasure of seeing this orquesta live?
calichris10
Son Montuno
They are great! I saw them in Feb at the Conga room...She was fantastic!