Why’d you do this again if you know I can’t do it

B

boomcat

Changui
Went dancing last night. There is a move I came up with. Starts as a hammerlock, do of change of places and keep your hand behind the follows neck. From there I can do whatever. This movement/position is unfamiliar for basically everyone I do it with. Once my hand is behind the follows neck, they don’t know what to do. Duck? Turn?

I did it a few times last night. Follows number one and two wanted to do a right turn after getting into the position. I learned from that that I can keep them from turning with my right forearm on their right shoulder/neck are. Follow one after I was done liked the move and asked me what I wanted her to do. Follow two was cordial. Failed a couple times on her. Really solidified my technique to keep them from moving. Follow number three followed the move perfectly. She was exhilarated.

I did this move with a fourth follow. I was able to keep her in place. I then tossed her left hand behind her back. And switched hands, moving my left hand to her left hand that I tossed behind her back and my right hand to the hand that was supposed to be behind her neck. At this point, neither hand was in place and after I reached for the missing hands, she was very flustered, probably a bit humiliated, and a bit crankily said “I don’t know what I’m supposed to do there”. The dance went on. I did the move again. She was in place and her tossed left hand stayed put but her hand behind her neck did not. At this point she sharply said “Why did you do this move again if you know I can’t do it.” Ouch. She basically did the move and I pointedly replied “You just did it”. After the dance I apologized for doing the move again. “Oh you’re good” she replied. Hoping and praying this doesn’t give me any amount of PTSD.

So, different responses from different follows. Follow four I should have read her response to failure and known not to do it again. I tried the move again on the first few and was able to perfect it, I suppose at the expense of some internal annoyance “why does he keep doing this”. I guess when something fails, I like to try it again to get it right. 3 times max.

What are follows thoughts here? Do you like having a failed move attempted again? How do you feel when you are in unknown but not-so-strange positions?
 
If I fail once, I don't mind if we try a second time. Very often it will work for the second time. If I fail a second time, if it's with a friend I usually tell "let's try that again" if I see we are getting there. With friends, sometimes we try and fail multiple times and just laugh and learn. With complete stranger at social, if we try two times and fail, I would probably be annoyed if he tries for the third time. Some people mind, and some don't. I think when she openly told you she doesn't know what to do, it should be a sign that you really shouldn't stress her more. I know it probably wasn't your intention but I absolutely hate when people try to teach me at social, I'm always tempted to tell them that if I wanted a class I would be somewhere else.
 
boomcat said:
So, different responses from different follows.
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Were all 4 of these followers strangers to you?

My guideline is if dancing with a stranger, I will probably not repeat the move, unless she says 'let's try it again'.

If dancing with a familiar face, then absolutely will repeat the move.

I've never had any issues or grievances doing the above.

I don't get the urge to re-do a failed execution as there are hundreds of other things to do.
 
Thank you both very much. Wisdom gained.

@Amun - very good point. Failing was very stressful for her. Hormones-chemicals released. When I did the same thing again, it was a big trigger and put her over the edge. Verbal lashing.

@Chris_Yannick - the one that I failed with might have been my first dance with her. The other three (actually four) I have danced with multiple times.

I will be much more observant and not so quick to try a failed move once more. The stranger/familiar face rule is a good one.
 
boomcat said:
Thank you both very much. Wisdom gained.

@Amun - very good point. Failing was very stressful for her. Hormones-chemicals released. When I did the same thing again, it was a big trigger and put her over the edge. Verbal lashing.

@Chris_Yannick - the one that I failed with might have been my first dance with her. The other three (actually four) I have danced with multiple times.

I will be much more observant and not so quick to try a failed move once more. The stranger/familiar face rule is a good one.
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I will sound a bit harsh.

1. Followers are not robots. You are dancing with people. Which means they will have a range of reactions, emotions, and thresholds.
2. In partner dancing “reading” the partner is as important skill or probably the most important skill. More than moves, musicality, etc. Develop it early if you are not natural at it.
3. Be judicious when and with whom you experiment. It is okay to ask “can I try that again” or add “because I think I didn’t make it work”. Every leader has experienced a follower requesting “can you please do that again”. I hardly heard ever a leader, asking permission to do it again.
 
Hmmm ... So the follower is with one hand behind her back and the other behind her neck? Doesn't sound like a comfortable position. I would understand the urge to relax her hands as soon as you let go. I probably would.

Also, train yourself in seamless recovery from failed moves. It reduces the stress for the follower if you are going to experiment on the dance floor, especially with followers you don't know. Some might not even understand something went wrong.
 
boomcat said:
Thank you both very much. Wisdom gained.

@Amun - very good point. Failing was very stressful for her. Hormones-chemicals released. When I did the same thing again, it was a big trigger and put her over the edge. Verbal lashing.

@Chris_Yannick - the one that I failed with might have been my first dance with her. The other three (actually four) I have danced with multiple times.

I will be much more observant and not so quick to try a failed move once more. The stranger/familiar face rule is a good one.
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Nobody wants to cause discomfort to others, sometimes we all fail. The best outcome is if we can learn from it. Good luck next time :D
 
Avoid experimenting with people you don´t know. Unless you know that you can test something without it looking obvious I would just stick to moves you know.

It´s also a bad way to build trust with someone new and some follows will flat out never dance with you again if they find out you like to use them as practice dummies as opposed to actually doing a proper nice dance. I´m telling you man this is a bad way to go, especially since follows talk to each other.
 
In my experience this is pretty normal. Lead tries a move, I miss the cue, but I can cover it up with another move that works for the hand hold or timing, etc. Then he tries it a bit later (occasionally a third time before I click :) ) and by then you realise what he meant to happen. There's usually a smile or shared muted cheer. It's almost always someone I haven't danced with, otherwise I know their steps and signs. If he doesn't try the step again, it signals to me he doesn't think I'm capable of it, so I tend to be pleased when they have another go, and it can give you that added connection if you share the "yeah, we got it!" moment :). As a follow I'm good with it.

I guess it depends on the follow's level, if the two of you 'click' and understand each other's dancing and cues and so forth. If a Cuban lead was trying a move with a follow who usually dances linear and vice versa, it would be more challenging.

As Amun noted, so long as the lead isn't taking the 'teach' or mansplain approach, or simply wasn't leading the step properly and acted if it was the follow, then it's okay. In those cases I would not put up with it (and let him know about it :D)
 
azana said:
In my experience this is pretty normal. Lead tries a move, I miss the cue, but I can cover it up with another move that works for the hand hold or timing, etc. Then he tries it a bit later (occasionally a third time before I click :) ) and by then you realise what he meant to happen. There's usually a smile or shared muted cheer. It's almost always someone I haven't danced with, otherwise I know their steps and signs. If he doesn't try the step again, it signals to me he doesn't think I'm capable of it, so I tend to be pleased when they have another go, and it can give you that added connection if you share the "yeah, we got it!" moment :). As a follow I'm good with it.

I guess it depends on the follow's level, if the two of you 'click' and understand each other's dancing and cues and so forth. If a Cuban lead was trying a move with a follow who usually dances linear and vice versa, it would be more challenging.

As Amun noted, so long as the lead isn't taking the 'teach' or mansplain approach, or simply wasn't leading the step properly and acted if it was the follow, then it's okay. In those cases I would not put up with it (and let him know about it :D)
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Thank you for that. Was quite encouraging.
 
Personally I don't mind trying again if something didn't work, but different people will differ on this so I agree with other posters that it's safer to just drop the issue if you're dancing with a new or unknown partner.
 
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