What's the appeal of going solo to the dance club (if you're not trying to pick up)?

The_Dorkcyde

The_Dorkcyde

Changui
I'd like to understand the appeal of going solo or with guys to the club, as a intermediate (probably closer to the beginner level of intermediate) lead, I really would.

Right now, I very much enjoy going to the clubs with a few friends (male and female) and dancing almost exclusively with them. Dance socials where I know lots of people are great too. I find partner dancing is a fun way to connect with people who you want to connect with and enjoy the music you like together. What I don't particularly get joy from is hanging out on the side of the dance floor and asking random women to dance who I have no desire to connect with, whose enjoyment is fleeting at best, and at worst who may or may not have weird issues or hang-ups that destroy the fun of dancing, such as:
  • Partners who have hang-ups about where and how you touch them (I had one partner who said she didn't want me to touch her fingers. Seriously!?)
  • Partners who have hang-ups about certain moves (e.g. dips)
  • Partners who just want to show off their freestyle dance moves and won't pick up your hand
  • Partners who just give off a bored vibe
  • Partners who critique you (even if they're the ones messing up)
  • Partners who overreact when an accidental collision happens
When I dance with people I like, they are smiling, laughing a screw-ups, giddy when we're dancing well together and even if it's not perfect, we are having a blast. A few weeks ago I accidently bonked a friend on the head (she's taller than average) and we just laughed about it. Random club girl would act like I just assaulted her and I would in turn feel horrible, completely taking the fun out of dancing.

I can see how being an advanced lead at the club can be fun, because people know you, your style is impressive, you don't get bad vibe from partners, and everybody wants to dance with you. But why go solo at all, as an intermediate lead, be at the bottom of the pecking order, and have a bunch of okay dance experiences with people you don't know (and a few bad ones)? Am I missing something?
 
The_Dorkcyde said:
Partners who have hang-ups about certain moves (e.g. dips)
Click to expand...

Dips are for performance NOT social dancing. (Look at the good salsa dancers - they don't dip whilst social dancing.) Dips are also highly dangerous for the follower if the lead doesn't do them correctly. Why should the follower put her health at risk?
 
DJ Yuca said:
Dips are for performance NOT social dancing. (Look at the good salsa dancers - they don't dip whilst social dancing.) Dips are also highly dangerous for the follower if the lead doesn't do them correctly. Why should the follower put her health at risk?
Click to expand...
Kind of my point. Dips done correctly for social dancing (not low dips) are not dangerous on the dance floor, though. Follows who are familiar with you and know you can dip will not have an issue with being dipped. And I'm not sure about you, but I see lots of advanced leads doing LOW dips at clubs. But of course, they are top dogs, so nobody minds.

So again, why would I dance with strangers who may think they're at a health risk whenever I want to dip them even a little, when I can do all of my salsa moves INCLUDING dips with friends with zero drama?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: vit
Welcome to intermediate hell.

It is worse than beginner hell in a couple of ways.

-you no longer can get away with the excuse of "I am a beginner so take it easy on me"

-IMO this is the level at which most people stay and never improve. If you don't move up, you will be stuck dancing with these people in perpetuity.

-Not yet good enough to impress the advanced dancer

-I had the most robotic and "soulless" dances at this stage.

-I went home dejected more times than I can count

Sounds awful right? Not quite. This is where you can freely experiment. This is also when most people start exploring musicality.

You realize that moves aren't enough, no matter how many you know. You begin to break out of the mold and establish your own unique style.

Soon, people take notice of you (not necessarily your friends) and you get compliments like:

"That was fun. Unique. Musical. Different. Light. Etc..."

Also, this is where the music starts to infect you and where you begin to react to it. It is no longer just background noise.

You also realize just how little you actually know and seek out more tailor made Instruction, either through a teacher, mentor or individual pursuits.

The only way to break out of intermediate hell is through exploring dancing with different partners, most of whom may show little to no emotion at first. The same partners will blossom as you grow.

There is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but it takes time. How much time is up to you.

It is worth it my friend.
 
The_Dorkcyde said:
Kind of my point. Dips done correctly for social dancing (not low dips) are not dangerous on the dance floor, though. Follows who are familiar with you and know you can dip will not have an issue with being dipped. And I'm not sure about you, but I see lots of advanced leads doing LOW dips at clubs. But of course, they are top dogs, so nobody minds.

So again, why would I dance with strangers who may think they're at a health risk whenever I want to dip them even a little, when I can do all of my salsa moves INCLUDING dips with friends with zero drama?
Click to expand...

I still disagree completely. I think you are missing my points:
1. Yes dips have been en vogue on the salsa scene for as long as I recall, and plenty of 'advanced' dancers like to do them. However if you look at the best dancers - or at least all the ones I regard as the best, known and unknown - they never do dips whilst social dancing. Yet they look better than the dancers who do dips. Why is that? Because dips are for performances.
2. Yes any move can be dangerous if the lead is incompetent, however dips are far more potentially dangerous than other moves. Again I ask you: why should a follower put her health at risk to make you happy? Bear in mind that if a lead messes up a dip then the follower might be suffering for the rest of her life. She might not even be able to dance again. All because you don't want to learn how to dance without dips?

Conclusion: don't dip unless you are on stage.
 
No offence to all you dippers out there of course. Yes I admit that plenty of very good leads and followers like to dip whilst social dancing - that doesn't negate my above points.
 
Last edited:
(Hopefully more on topic:D )

When I learned to speak English, it was not so that I can only speak with the people in the class, or my friends. It was so that I can communicate with anyone in the world, provided they can speak a bit of it too.

Same thing applies to salsa, as far as I am concerned. I've invested a considerable time (and money) in classes, travelling, going to events, practicing at home, watching videos, listening to music, so that I can "speak" to anyone who can and wants to speak with me also.

Don't get me wrong, dancing with my salsa friends can be very fun, but the adjectives that come to mind most strongly are "comfortable" and "secure". Sure, it is often easier to try "new material" with people you know..

However, for me, the true magic happens when you get this connection with a complete stranger, and I feel I can be the most creative, like trying to make someones day (or night) completely unexpectedly. This is exactly why I've spend to much time practicing, so I can connect with an equally enthusiastic person, with whom I've not danced before. I guess that is why traveling for salsa is so popular.

Also, when I dance with my friends, or the people in my primary venue, i kind of get comfortable and fall into the "trap" of doing the same convenient, of comfortable things, to more or less the same songs.. The follows get used to my leading, and I get used to what they like, dislike etc.. Which is often a good thing.

But the best dance I've ever had (not that I can remember) with any of my "regulars" does not come close to the several best dances (some of which I do remember!) I've had in different cities (or countries) when you ask a random person to dance, and have no expectations, but something happens, and you create something beautiful and unrepeatable for 4-5 minutes, seemingly out of "nothing".

As you become more experienced dancers, if you pay attention, you can in many more occasions than not, avoid the unpleasantness of the bullet points you've listed.
 
Ha ha ha, I like how somehow some think is your fault because of your expectations, choice of moves or your dance level.

I have covered this several times and I totally agree with you.

The reasons why people go dancing outside latin America will always puzzle me plus the way they complain when things dont go their way after they changed the rules and etiquette.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Welcome to intermediate hell.

It is worse than beginner hell in a couple of ways.

-you no longer can get away with the excuse of "I am a beginner so take it easy on me"

-IMO this is the level at which most people stay and never improve. If you don't move up, you will be stuck dancing with these people in perpetuity.

-Not yet good enough to impress the advanced dancer

-I had the most robotic and "soulless" dances at this stage.

-I went home dejected more times than I can count

Sounds awful right? Not quite. This is where you can freely experiment. This is also when most people start exploring musicality.

You realize that moves aren't enough, no matter how many you know. You begin to break out of the mold and establish your own unique style.

Soon, people take notice of you (not necessarily your friends) and you get compliments like:

"That was fun. Unique. Musical. Different. Light. Etc..."

Also, this is where the music starts to infect you and where you begin to react to it. It is no longer just background noise.

You also realize just how little you actually know and seek out more tailor made Instruction, either through a teacher, mentor or individual pursuits.

The only way to break out of intermediate hell is through exploring dancing with different partners, most of whom may show little to no emotion at first. The same partners will blossom as you grow.

There is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but it takes time. How much time is up to you.

It is worth it my friend.
Click to expand...
Thanks! All points noted. I have been infected by the music, that's for certain!

I'm at a point where personality and connection (with music and partner) and style starts to shine through, and you begin to find the joys in it. It's a little tough to know how dancing with me feels because I can't really ask my partners and get an honest answer. But based on their reactions, my partners find joy in dancing with me too. But now, dancing with people who react with genuine joy makes the other dances even less desirable.

I see what you mean about dancing with different partners, but the partners within my social circle are varied enough that I get all of that from them, and they are improving as I am improving. Or are you saying that I should still endure the joyless dances with random club girls to get better?

I'm okay with doing that, which is why I ask. I genuinely would like to know if there's anything to gain from enduring those experiences.
 
Joco said:
(Hopefully more on topic:D )

When I learned to speak English, it was not so that I can only speak with the people in the class, or my friends. It was so that I can communicate with anyone in the world, provided they can speak a bit of it too.

Same thing applies to salsa, as far as I am concerned. I've invested a considerable time (and money) in classes, travelling, going to events, practicing at home, watching videos, listening to music, so that I can "speak" to anyone who can and wants to speak with me also.

Don't get me wrong, dancing with my salsa friends can be very fun, but the adjectives that come to mind most strongly are "comfortable" and "secure". Sure, it is often easier to try "new material" with people you know..

However, for me, the true magic happens when you get this connection with a complete stranger, and I feel I can be the most creative, like trying to make someones day (or night) completely unexpectedly. This is exactly why I've spend to much time practicing, so I can connect with an equally enthusiastic person, with whom I've not danced before. I guess that is why traveling for salsa is so popular.

Also, when I dance with my friends, or the people in my primary venue, i kind of get comfortable and fall into the "trap" of doing the same convenient, of comfortable things, to more or less the same songs.. The follows get used to my leading, and I get used to what they like, dislike etc.. Which is often a good thing.

But the best dance I've ever had (not that I can remember) with any of my "regulars" does not come close to the several best dances (some of which I do remember!) I've had in different cities (or countries) when you ask a random person to dance, and have no expectations, but something happens, and you create something beautiful and unrepeatable for 4-5 minutes, seemingly out of "nothing".

As you become more experienced dancers, if you pay attention, you can in many more occasions than not, avoid the unpleasantness of the bullet points you've listed.
Click to expand...
That does sound like a lot of fun, but it sounds like you're pretty advanced. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to make anyone's night at a club at my level. That being the case, are you saying that you had to slog through the unpleasantness mentioned above to get there?
 
I like dancing with my friends... but all my dance-friendships (with women) started through dancing.

I had plenty of amazing dances with my friends, and I had plenty even better dances with complete strangers. If you dance just with your friends you are playing it safe. You might get genuine happiness and connection out of them but you are dancing with a relatively small sample of people and will inadvertently achieve a state, where you think that it's all great in your small world just because you never experienced anything better and can not really compare.

Yet, there is so much more to explore. People you don't know might be of a completely different dance background and bring a new approach, energy and connection to the dance that you will never experience in your small safe group of friends. Different people will bring different stuff into the dance and dancing with new people will be a way to discover exactly that - new and exciting.

Sure, if you are beginner/improver, then your dancing is not yet good enough (neither might be that of your dance partner so it's not always your fault) and having a satisfying dance might be difficult to achieve. In that case, dancing with friends is easier because you still have your friendship into which you can tap to create a better connection + there is less stress. But once you become a better dancer it will also become easier to create amazing connection just through the dancing alone. Then you can dance with a complete stranger and just bask in the magic of the moment and what you create together.
 
The_Dorkcyde said:
That does sound like a lot of fun, but it sounds like you're pretty advanced. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to make anyone's night at a club at my level. That being the case, are you saying that you had to slog through the unpleasantness mentioned above to get there?
Click to expand...

Dancing with top level dancers is surely a great experience, but yes, like most great things, it has a price ...

Even if two top level dancers dance together, satisfaction is not guaranteed. There are other factors in play, like compatibility, mood, music, egos, chemistry ... for the same reasons, dancers that are not at top level can also enjoy dancing with each other

Reasons why would you dance with a complete stranger: you see someone dancing and you see he/she moves the way you like or learned on the classes or enjoy the music similar way like you etc ... so you ask for a dance and chances are that magic moment will happen ... if it doesn't, not a big deal, you try the luck with next person ...

Chances for this however depend on various things. In my case, several years ago it was better than now. There were more people dancing up to my liking. There was better mood on the dance floors. And I was younger. So these thing were happening more often than now ...

And yes, I was leading more dips back then than now :p People do much more dangerous things in the public perfectly legally ...
 
Last edited:
That does sound like a lot of fun, but it sounds like you're pretty advanced. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to make anyone's night at a club at my level. That being the case, are you saying that you had to slog through the unpleasantness mentioned above to get there?
Click to expand...

I am certainly not advanced, at least not technically, but I do think I have a considerable experience by dancing in many of Europe's major cities, and a several smaller ones (this excludes congresses and such events).

I never try to make anyone's night, and I would not recommend having such mentality. I just try to have a nice dance with a given partner. Dancing with stranger is a high risk / high reward thing, so by definition the great dances Aurel and I mentioned above a much more rare then we would like ( at least that is the my experience, I am not speaking for Aurel here by any means). But they are so good that they are definitely worth the search.

What I've learned from dancing with strangers, is to pay great attention to the partner (I can not overstate this): of their level, expectations, musicality, and how (and if) they connect to the particular song etc. I understand this can be overwhelming at first, but you kind of get a hand of it over time. It is part of your salsa journey. I have not mastered this by any means, I am just aware, and trying. Many things are just about experience, and wanting to learn, both about salsa, and how to deal with the people in the scene, and their particularities. Sometimes, you just have to slog through the unpleasantness as you put it, but as long as you learn something from it, it is all good.

Also, what helps me is to not take the whole thing overly seriously, we are trying to have fun after all (well, hopefully). They have been other threads on this forum about how to handle rejection, or forceful leaders, dancers only dancing with the best local dancers, snobbishness etc.. I try to steer clear of that, and accept everything with a smile. I guess, when I am choosing who to ask, I look for the follow that appears to want to dance the most, regardless of level, age etc..

Finally, I have to not that I avoid going to latin clubs and the like. I do most of my dancing at socials either organized by schools, or other events that are targeted for dancers. Maybe that makes a difference..?
 
Joco said:
What I've learned from dancing with strangers, is to pay great attention to the partner (I can not overstate this): of their level, expectations, musicality, and how (and if) they connect to the particular song etc.
Click to expand...

It is actually playing a big role here. When dancing with stranger (or a person we didn't dance for longer time), we concentrate more, so many times the results is beyond expectation. With people we dance frequently, we usually don't apply the same effort
 
The_Dorkcyde said:
I can see how being an advanced lead at the club can be fun, because people know you, your style is impressive, you don't get bad vibe from partners, and everybody wants to dance with you.
Click to expand...

Btw followers are not a homogeneous group - whilst some women love dancing with an advanced lead, others have the opposite opinion of that very same person. Different followers have different priorities and tastes.

(Source: I'm not a woman but I have occasionally had conversations with women.)
 
How long have you been dancing? Where do you dance? You say you are intermediate level. That term is relative. You seem to have very negative experiences with non-friends. I don't that strange. Many guys I know in my local scene still come solo for dancing.

One of the things of dancing with friends is that sometimes you have to give them obligatory dances. That happens when there is a level mismatch. If you truly enjoy dancing with friends that is good. When you train harder and become better then, and some of your friends stagnate, you may not enjoying dancing with them.
 
The_Dorkcyde said:
I'd like to understand the appeal of going solo or with guys to the club, as a intermediate (probably closer to the beginner level of intermediate) lead, I really would.

Right now, I very much enjoy going to the clubs with a few friends (male and female) and dancing almost exclusively with them. Dance socials where I know lots of people are great too. I find partner dancing is a fun way to connect with people who you want to connect with and enjoy the music you like together. What I don't particularly get joy from is hanging out on the side of the dance floor and asking random women to dance who I have no desire to connect with, whose enjoyment is fleeting at best, and at worst who may or may not have weird issues or hang-ups that destroy the fun of dancing, such as:
  • Partners who have hang-ups about where and how you touch them (I had one partner who said she didn't want me to touch her fingers. Seriously!?)
  • Partners who have hang-ups about certain moves (e.g. dips)
  • Partners who just want to show off their freestyle dance moves and won't pick up your hand
  • Partners who just give off a bored vibe
  • Partners who critique you (even if they're the ones messing up)
  • Partners who overreact when an accidental collision happens
When I dance with people I like, they are smiling, laughing a screw-ups, giddy when we're dancing well together and even if it's not perfect, we are having a blast. A few weeks ago I accidently bonked a friend on the head (she's taller than average) and we just laughed about it. Random club girl would act like I just assaulted her and I would in turn feel horrible, completely taking the fun out of dancing.

I can see how being an advanced lead at the club can be fun, because people know you, your style is impressive, you don't get bad vibe from partners, and everybody wants to dance with you. But why go solo at all, as an intermediate lead, be at the bottom of the pecking order, and have a bunch of okay dance experiences with people you don't know (and a few bad ones)? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Maybe what's not giod for you is good for someone else. Maybe they don't have friends that dance or luke salsa music (like me). Maybe they get bored at home and want to interact or watch p there interact. Maybe they're taking classes and are constantly told "go dance and have fun". The they join a forum and read about why people like them go out aline. Then they quit smd a scene stagnates.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top